PetitCessnaVoyageur wrote:
First, the way money travels between Jeppesen, Garmin and Cessna when a chartview unlock card is sold, is not my business.
And you should not care, because it is irrelevant for you. The only thing that matters for you is that you bought Jeppview from Cessna. This party is your contract partner and if you feel they do not fulfill their contract they are the ones to turn to for remedy/damages.
As it has been working for 7 years and technically I do not even believe that “auto fill” is an essential and warranted feature, I assume that odds are pretty limited.
PetitCessnaVoyageur wrote:
The matter is that I’m a second class citizen
i offered two solution. Either upgrading my aircraft to NXi at their expense (so that I can benefit from chartview), either refunding the Chartview unlock card.
As much as I understand your frustration, what you offered is basically ridiculous. Why should they upgrade your plane at their cost? Why should they refund a software that has been working flawlessly for 7 years because it is no longer compatible with the data provided by an external data provider?
I can’t get a refund for the PC I bought 5 years ago, because the next version of Windows will not run on it. I’m not entitled to receive a free Blueray-player, because my favorite movies are no longer available as HD-DVD.
Yes, it is a challenge that our planes become more of flying computers and therefore start to share part of the industry mechanics of the computer industry – and these include that a useful product lifecycle is no longer 50 years but more in the ballpark of 5-15years.
What isn‘t clear for me: Does Garmin Flight Charts still give you the aircraft position on the approach or just the chart,as a document?
@Malibuflyer, thank you for your input.
I do not even believe that “auto fill” is an essential and warranted feature
My point is that it is described in the G1000 AFMS. “Essential” is subjective, I consider it is “expected”.
Malibuflyer wrote:
As much as I understand your frustration, what you offered is basically ridiculous.
You’re right, there is a bit of frustration on my side, and posting the story is in a way, symptomatic (not only that, I hope)
Asking for an NXi upgrade is actually ridiculous (absurd). But they started with this ! Stating that the only way to fix the Chartview in my aircraft, is upgrading to NXi, is also ridiculous. This is where I say I’m a “second class citizen”: in this life, there is zero chance I’m a client for such an upgrade.
Malibuflyer wrote:
Why should they refund a software that has been working flawlessly for 7 years because it is no longer compatible with the data provided by an external data provider?
I can’t get a refund for the PC I bought 5 years ago, because the next version of Windows will not run on it. I’m not entitled to receive a free Blueray-player, because my favorite movies are no longer available as HD-DVD.
I don’t think your examples compare.
Let me try to explain.
In the case of chartview, there is little R&D. Actually, G1000 is able to display charts (= a PDF reader) from scratch (since it reads Flitecharts). What you buy with Chartview is the possibility to read an other source of charts (Jeppesen). So, what you buy, is a privilege for compatibility with a different source.
When you pay 3200€ + VAT to get compatibility, I think it is not excessive to expect it to last more than 7 years.
In other words, it seems fair to expect Garmin, Cessna and Jeppesen to be in touch on a regular basis, to avoid losing the compatibility. How long is a good question. Apparently, this work has not been performed.
When Cessna calls “technology advancement” as a way of defense, I find it hard to understand.
The chartview unlock card (PN # 010-00330-53) is still available for purchase at Textron, so it’s not outdated, it’s not supported properly.
I’ve read in a separate post, an impressive work from Cessna dealing with the 210 wing spars.
I would have preferred that Cessna answers they do their best to support a whole fleet, and that sometimes it’s at your advantage (210 owners), sometimes not.
I think I would have felt better. In a way, I would have felt as if I was treated as a first class citizen: with honesty.
@CardinalRG wrote:
What isn‘t clear for me: Does Garmin Flight Charts still give you the aircraft position on the approach or just the chart,as a document?
I’ve never seen them work, but from an older Peter’s post, it seems they can show aircraft position.
https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/3546-garmin-flitecharts-how-can-the-small-text-work
I saw them working on a friends GTN. In the G1000 Manual aircraft position in not mentioned, thats why I was curious. Without position I would not spend the annual fee.
When you pay 3200€ + VAT to get compatibility, I think it is not excessive to expect it to last more than 7 years.
I under stand your fustration. €3K isn’t a cheap laptop that you expect to trade up in 3 years. You expect it to last some time. But likewise (as you already said) expecting them to upgrade your panel for you isn’t realistic either.
Perhaps a better approach would be to consider how long you reasonably expected them to work for ? 10 years? 15 years? 20 years?
If you expected it to work for 15 years, and it only worked for 7, then ask for (15-7)/15 * €3,200 to be refunded. ie not the whole amount, but the percentage that you feel short changed for.
They had all latitude to make an offer 
By the way, my initial request was a partial refund as a compensation, just as you suggest. I probably should have sticked to this, instead of increasing my level of expectancy.
I wonder if there is any precedent for any compensation?
Years ago I was looking at one of the Avidyne MFDs (EX500 or EX5000?) partly because it would display the nice Jeppesen VFR charts (the “printed” 1:500k “VFR/GPS” charts).
I didn’t go ahead largely because Avidyne could not confirm that the OBS mode works with a Garmin navigator! It is known that it does not work between a Garmin nav, and a KMD550 MFD, although none of the (very few) people who had such an installation were able to string enough words together to describe what exactly it does.
Well, Jepp dropped those charts in 2013, so a major chunk of the functionality would have been lost…
This is why so many people stick to basic IFR avionics, and use a tablet for anything “modern”.
@Peter what would you consider basic IFR avionics to be? And would they allow you to make all the IAP approaches, regulation wise?
If they do you make a good point and it would be much more uogradeable and cheaper to have all the mapping and gps on a tablet which can be removed from the aircraft.
Quote from another forum related to Diamond’s G1000 and GTX345 bug which results in not presenting traffic targets:
Diamond has had the fix for perhaps two years. They will include it with a bunch of other software changes in the certification effort for a production airplane, and then it will be available to us. Diamond does not certify software just to fix bugs, only to bring new features to a production airplane, and the bug fixes come along for the ride. This is the curse of an airplane that is certified with a glass panel. Airplanes originally certified with steam gauge instruments who add glass later can get the updates from their dealer whenever Garmin issues them.
So you can imagine frustration of tens (if not hundreds) of pilots waiting to get serious safety fix but can’t get it because the manufacturer is not in hurry to certify it because of some other priorities.
