I‘m just wondering if the carbon monoxide detector shows a high concentration of CO you could still inhale the output of an oxygen generator?
CO2 generator?
I‘m just wondering if the carbon monoxide detector shows a high concentration of CO you could still inhale the output of an oxygen generator?
Sure you can. The device will work as designed too – assuming there’s any O2 left to concentrate, you’ll be breathing nearly pure oxygen. Problem is, it’s not going to do you any good. The reason CO is toxic and lethal in even small amounts is that it binds to haemoglobin irreversibly (as opposed to O2 and CO2 which bind reversibly aka competitively). That means any Hb molecule which was exposed and then bonded to a CO molecule is lost for good and can no longer transport O2. After exposure to high CO concentration the only way to survive is to breathe O2 at high pressure in a hyperbaric pressure chamber (so the O2 is transported by simple diffusion in plasma, which is laughably inefficient at sea level pressure). Breathing O2 – even 100% – at flying levels is the exact opposite of a hyperbaric chamber unfortunately.
Tango wrote:
The reason CO is toxic and lethal in even small amounts is that it binds to haemoglobin irreversibly
To be quite correct, it does not bind irreversibly, but much stronger than does O2.
Airborne_Again wrote:
To be quite correct, it does not bind irreversibly, but much stronger than does O2.
…And according to Le Chatelier’s principle, breathing pure O2 instead of air will shift the equilibrium between CO-bound and O2-bound haemoglobin towards the latter.
Ultranomad wrote:
…And according to Le Chatelier’s principle, breathing pure O2 instead of air will shift the equilibrium between CO-bound and O2-bound haemoglobin towards the latter.
Yes. This Wikipedia page has a table of how long it takes to remove 50% carboxyhemoglobin in different circumstances. Of course it takes the least time in a hyperbaric chamber, but it is possible also with normal (sea level) air.
Will the CO molecule go through the oxygen concentrator in the first place? Assuming no bypass air to regulate the amount of oxygen you breathe, of course.
Say your CO alarm goes off, is setting the concentrator for 100% – if that is even possible – a viable short term strategy?
Will the CO molecule go through the oxygen concentrator in the first place? Assuming no bypass air to regulate the amount of oxygen you breathe, of course.
Say your CO alarm goes off, is setting the concentrator for 100% – if that is even possible – a viable short term strategy?
This is exactly why I was asking the question, to be sure about the short term strategy until a landing at a close by airfield. But I also think with cannulas there will be a bypass when you inhale. Masks for sure will be better.
Ah I misunderstood your question then – apologies. I don’t think that is how they work (the concentration mechanism works by removal of nitrogen if I understand correctly). But even if they did manage to give you O2 without CO, it wouldn’t matter much – the bypass effect with a cannula would be huge. As I tried to express, the absolute top priority in CO exposure (besides avoiding it in the first place) is to eliminate exposure. Yes the bond with Hb is ultimately reversible but not at the pressures and timescales we are discussing. Every additional molecule you breathe in is going to bite you badly down the road which depending on concentration may be a very short one. You’d need an air-tight mask and a source of air capable of providing enough flow, which an O2 concentrator can not – they can’t even provide continuous low volume flow which is why they are triggered by every inhalation to provide a puff of O2. I think they are great little pieces of kit, don’t get me wrong (I have one and love it) – they just won’t be of particularly relevant use in the scenario you describe I believe. If I were to see rising CO levels on my detector I’d do the typical recommended stuff (open fresh air vents, shut off cabin heat, lean aggressively etc) and if levels kept rising I think I’d rather switch off my engine first and take my chances with a forced landing before messing with my O2 concentrator.
The other points above are certainly true and I’m not arguing with them but perhaps a bit academic – CO incapacitates badly, insidiously and quickly. If you have a large bottle of O2 (or an on-board system) then yes a mask at say 15L pure O2 is going to be of some help, particularly if you manage to get rid of ongoing exposure. But that is not what a portable oxygen concentrator does. It provides aliquots of pure O2 that approximate the effect of a steady stream of low flow O2. Perhaps some designs are capable of more but I’m not aware of any.
