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ADS-B - what practical relevance in Europe?

Why is this an experiment? As long as the containment radius radiated is set to unknown… Then the transmission could be used for traffic information, but wouldn’t be used for separation (and it wouldn’t satisfy the ADS-B mandate of the FAA).

This experiment allows people to connect ADS-B at a far reasonable cost. 10.000 Euro to have the containment radius is ridiculous. EASA should IMHO approve certified GPS receivers to be used for ADS-B as a generic standard, instead of going to a DOA. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
Especially as their are hundreds of approvals out there which do approve this coupling.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

We have had this discussion here before – search on 8.33

The current situation is that whether you need one or two 8.33 radios is determined by the state of the aircraft registry, not by EASA.

The UK (G-reg) wants one.

Germany, IIRC, D-reg, wants two.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The current situation is that whether you need one or two 8.33 radios is determined by the state of the aircraft registry, not by EASA.
The UK (G-reg) wants one. Germany, IIRC, D-reg, wants two.

AOPA Germany has won it’s campaign against German BAF. A single 8.33 kHz radio is sufficient in Germany as well. Again, this are airspace requirements, not requirements to an aircraft.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

That in combination with the AOPA Germany results I would try to convince them that a single radio is sufficient for your operations

Urs, if you want to try to go this way, the guy you need to convince is:

Roger Christen
Inspektor Lufttüchtigkeit STLT
Bundesamt für Zivilluftfahrt BAZL

LSZK, Switzerland

I understood that a DME is ALWAYS required in Europe, along with the dual nav/com, BRNAV and so on, but I may well be wrong. In which case, I wonder whether the national gold plating by Germany and Switzerland is actually not EASA compliant.

This is not true. For IFR in Sweden you need only a single COM (25 kHz), single VOR and a single ADF. Formally, you don’t even need a transponder. Plus any airspace requirements, of course, and then a mode C transponder quickly becomes necessary :-).

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
This is not true. For IFR in Sweden you need only a single COM (25 kHz), single VOR and a single ADF. Formally, you don’t even need a transponder. Plus any airspace requirements, of course, and then a mode C transponder quickly becomes necessary :-)

In Norway there are no explicit requirements for any specific navigational instruments (except the minimal “6 pack” and radio, lights etc and transponder). The requirement is that the navigational instruments must make it possible to follow the flight plan, and it must be possible to follow instructions from ATC. Redundancy is also a requirement for any navigational instrument, but this redundancy only means in reference to the requirement (there is no need for a double set of every instrument for instance). I have no idea what this means in practice (I don’t fly IFR), but I guess it will mean the same as the Swedish rules? If landing is to be done with instruments, then this instrument has to be in accordance with the actual airport(s).

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Just came across this:
Royal Air Force BBMF The Hurricane, Spitfire and Chipmunk aircraft have recently been fitted with a FLARM Collision Avoidance System. This system transmits position, height and projected flight path and receives similar information from other FLARM equipped aircraft.
Link

EDxx, Germany

I wonder how the finances work with these free transponders.

The installer normally makes about 25% of the end user price, as the dealer margin. That’s just for supplying the hardware.

That money goes towards the cost of installing it, so if you supply the hardware yourself, or it comes bundled free of charge, the installer needs to charge more because he is no longer making the dealer margin.

So, are Avidyne giving the installer a cash lump sum, equivalent to what would be his 25% dealer discount?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

how the finances work with these free transponders.

These are neither transponders (in the proper strict sense of the word) nor are they for free.

And as for the installer and associated commercial margin: these devices are normally acquired over the www, or through some relation or group acquisition, and installed by the a/c owner/operator. The equipment being essentially uncertified, there can never be a certified installation anyway, so anybody can do it – and generally does, and generally to success.

Last Edited by at 08 Oct 14:40
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Sorry for the confusion… I was referring to the original subject of this thread which was the Avidyne IFD540 with a free Mode S / ADS-B transponder.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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