FAA, and running Items on Condition

achimha wrote:

I know nothing about that particular annual, only what was discussed on this forum. So no allegations of any sort.

Thank-you Achimha for clarifying.

As pointed out in the linked thread, the IA is NOT always the “Bad Guy” (as alot of this thread seems to suggest), and in that particular case, my “Inspection” saved the Euro GA contributor from a pricey cylinder change !

( Yes, Achimha, my dck IS bigger too, or at least that’s what I’d like to think. )

achimha wrote:

There’s always room for disagreement between an aircraft owner and the one having the government authority to decide about airworthiness.

There is always room for disagreement between two parties, but communication, no surprises, and don’t perform repairs before there is a quote and and agreement between the IA and the customer work best. Not every job can be flat rated, some are time and materials, but these should also have an agreed limit. The IA can decide on what in their opinion is a defect and constitutes airworthiness, but they are obligated provide a list of discrepancies and airworthy or not, and must make the appropriate inspection permanent record entry. It is the owner’s responsibility to approve any maintenance and who performs the maintenance, so the owner has direct control over the restoration of an annual signed off as unairworthy by an IA. They will need to have a mechanic sign off any of the discrepancies for which maintenance is subsequently performed and the owner can sign off any preventive maintenance they perform. I would not allow an entry to be made in the log books I did not agree to, so if the IA listed a discrepancy for which the FAA does not demand, I would simply defer it as not required by FAR and not make any entry what so ever.

NCYankee wrote:

of an annual signed off as unairworthy by an IA

I would claim that an IA does not sign off anything as “unairworthy” and in fact doesn’t have any authority to make such an entry. The IA should be documenting that an inspection was performed, along with a list of discrepancies. He can decide to not sign off the aircraft as airworthy for return to service, but this does not need to be and should not be written in the inspection record. Without a return to service as airworthy statement, the aircraft cannot be flown without a flight permit. There is nothing to prevent the owner/operator from getting another IA to come and take a different position and sign off the aircraft as airworthy and approve return to service without there ever being any comment or note of any kind in the record regarding “unairworthniness”.

Mike Busch has written a lot about this in his articles.

BeechBaby wrote:

You came back immediately with some smart ass and barbed comments.

BeechBaby wrote:

Here was me thinking that your approach was one that I may have worked with……

Is yours the one with the auto “crimps” ?

I would NEVER have worked with …

Am I right in understanding that if an IA won’t sign off the Annual as airworthy, he can sign it off an Unairworthy and you can then get an A&P to rectify the said discrepancies and then you are good to fly without needing an IA again?

Yes, that’s correct. We researched that option when my props were found to be really sad in Montana during an annual. It would have been convenient to overhaul them in California where I lived instead of shipping them back & forth. The IA would have listed the props as a discrepancy but would have gotten me a ferry permit to go back home and deal with them on my own.

Peter wrote:

Am I right in understanding that if an IA won’t sign off the Annual as airworthy, he can sign it off an Unairworthy and you can then get an A&P to rectify the said discrepancies and then you are good to fly without needing an IA again?

Correct. The best discussion of this that I’ve seen is here: Maintenance signoffs

Note that the list of discrepancies doesn’t need to be in the unworthy signoff itself. It can be listed on a separate piece of paper. Also, if the A&P doesn’t agree with the IA’s airworthiness judgement he can simply sign off the discrepancy as airworthy. A good example is an IA that wants to pull a cylinder due to low compression. The A&P can disagree and sign off the discrepancy and the aircraft as airworthy.

Many thanks for that doc, chflyer. I replaced your temp link with locally stored one, so you can delete your copy. Very interesting stuff!