Dan wrote:
Van’s has gone completely quiet re solving the LCP problem. People have sent queries to multiple addresses to the company for weeks, no answer, just nothing. Latest official update from the company dated October 8, 2023.
Someone on VAF suggested (may have since been deleted) that it may have gone quiet because the whole thing is now in the hands of lawyers and insurance underwriters. Van’s senior management may no longer be calling the shots.
Van’s significantly expanded their manufacturing operations in recent years to meet the demand peak that came with covid. It is reasonable to suppose that they borrowed non-trivial sums of money to do this. Debt generally needs to be serviced, and that requires maintaining or even growing revenue. The deposits they take with new kit orders are doubtless a vital source of revenue, and it is probably reasonable to suppose that following this debacle new orders have fallen off a cliff.
My own experience with my kits suggests that their poor quality control leads to poor control of costs. When my wing kit arrived earlier this year, a single 12ft length of aluminium angle (worth what, $30?) was crushed beyond use, something which was easily noticed and based on where it was packed was definitely not shipping damage. Of course I sent them pictures, and replacing it cost them over 1 AMU in transatlantic shipping. They didn’t query it all, or even get in touch to see if I could resolve the problem locally by sourcing some material myself and sending them the bill. They didn’t even ask if I could wait for it until my fuselage kit shipped, because although that part comes with the wing kit it’s actually part of the fuselage.
Of course, none of that matters when orders and deposits are rolling in faster than you can process them. I hypothesise that is no longer the case.
@Airborne_Again wrote:
Indeed!
It’s a bit disconcerting when the forum owner calls members “guests” in “his virtual living room” rather than contributors.
He is extremely unprofessional. If you read his mission statement he distastefully mentions how the only thing he cares about is money.
That’s why I suspect he will never delete that thread. He probably gets more viewers from that single thread than all the other threads combined. Plus many users will stop paying him “DUES” if he does such a thing. Another reason is people will start going to other places like here. At least if he keeps that thread open he can still steer the conversation with his post deleting.
RV8Bob wrote:
He is extremely unprofessional. If you read his mission statement he distastefully mentions how the only thing he cares about is money.
Well, actually the very definition of professional is that it’s about the money.
The ‘dues paid’ virtue signalling irritates me.
Graham wrote:
Well, actually the very definition of professional is that it’s about the money.
If the Oxford English Dictionary is to be believed, there are four distinct definitions of “professional” as a noun. One of them indeed relates to money, as you say. The other three are just as valid. One of them is “A person who does something with a high level of competence, commitment, or expertise.” Given the context I’d say that was the intended meaning in RV8Bob’s post.
I don’t harbor any ill will toward Doug – he makes his position well-known up-front.
I do take issue with the fact the mods do not police posts in a consistent manner. I make sure my posts are relevant, respectful, and truthful, and they get deleted if I hint at any of the “-abilities” – insurability, liability, marketability. The truth hurts, I guess. Then posts like this remain in place: https://vansairforce.net/community/showpost.php?p=1719536&postcount=1669
That quality contribution serves no purpose other than to stir the proverbial pot. On the plus side, I guess I know where I stand in the pecking order since it remains and mine have been deleted or heavily edited.
If Van’s would get their act together and communicate, I think much of this would go away. The fact that they won’t serves to make me think the speculation re: debt & legal maneuvering is probably accurate. To date, they’ve not answered any of my emails or calls (only 3 or 4… trying to be respectful) in the last FOUR MONTHS.
I have 317 LCP spread almost evenly across three kits I ordered in July 2022. I am starting to feel like a hostage who won’t be able to build unless I fork over another $4,400 + shipping to obtain the parts I already paid for. Meanwhile, others who ordered kits in March 2023 are starting to receive those kits – without LCP.
Is it any wonder that I am concerned that I am going to end up getting screwed?
Thanks for the opp to vent.
OK, so EuroGA has become the official Vans bashing site ? Fine with me, but I’m not so sure it’s good for this site in the long run. Hearing only one side of the story, and only by those who get their post deleted av VAF, is not the recipe to unfold the truth.
EuroGA has become the official Vans bashing site ?
Not from where I am sitting. We’ve had a good tech discussion so far.
“Bashing” is a really nasty word. The usual meaning is criticising something which probably deserves it but there are commercial interests which want to maintain silence. For example all the big US GA forums (that carry adverts; most of them) have a “no bashing” policy i.e. they allow a limited critical discussion of current products (e.g., in avionics, Garmin or Avidyne) but anything over an invisible line is deleted. For example this notorious warranty was a huge issue in the US at the time (not much in Europe due to far fewer aircraft owners especially ones who are actually engaged in their aircraft technically rather than just dropping it off at the dealer, plus far less social media participation on tech issues) and the US discussion was notable for the behind the scenes mod activity 
And I would expect Garmin to get a lot more protection still – especially as they have a full time social media guy over there in the US who, you can bet, will be onto the admins if he thinks his company is getting unfair “bashing” and, rest assured, with a 6 digit advert budget, his “suggestions” will be implemented…
Back to Vans, I would expect this to be a pretty explosive issue given the customer demographic: people with lots of time, not so much money, a huge committment of time for many (WAY more than they spent with their wife!) and seeing their pride and joy getting devalued to approximately zero.
Vans, in turn, will do all they can to avoid bankrupcy. In general, professional liability insurance should cover this but a general insurance principle is that the insured also has a duty to minimise the loss. Example: wind blows off your roof; you are expected to cover it ASAP to avoid consequent rain damage. It is fairly likely that their professional liability coverage does not cover liability made far worse by crappy stock management.
We had a thing like this in my business c. 1999 and were able to recall a few hundred units (£200 each) by S/N. Cost us a good few k on DHL sending out new ones. The reason was a tantalum cap fitted backwards, which could have caused a fire. All but two of the units were collected back… But AFAIK Vans don’t operate any part or batch traceability.
LeSving wrote:
OK, so EuroGA has become the official Vans bashing site ? Fine with me, but I’m not so sure it’s good for this site in the long run. Hearing only one side of the story, and only by those who get their post deleted av VAF, is not the recipe to unfold the truth.
If it is one-sided it’s because defenders of Van’s choose not to post here – not because such posts are deleted . Anyway, you yourself have written lots of posts providing “another side of the story”.
I think the talk of planes or kit values being reduced to zero, kits not being finished and Vans going out of business reflects only wild eyed imagination. The total cost for the structural parts is low in relation to the value of the aircraft, sales haven’t stopped and won’t, and life goes on. It’s a few thousand dollars per plane on a plane with a $100 to $200K market value when complete. Somebody will pay, the only question is who and by what mechanism. New kit sales will continue.
I don’t know how many builders of RVs even know about this site, 1% ? And of that 1%, who cares about to posting anything? 2% ? It’s probably something of that order of magnitude. But that 2% of that 1% for sure is not the “silent majority”. It’s only those who have an axe to grind about both Vans and VAF that will post anything.
Whatever. It’s not my site, but It’s sad to see that this site is heading in a negative direction. I’m not a fan of VAF, but at least it’s not a dumping ground for people with an axe to grind about particular vendors.
