S57 wrote:
I am not criticising you for it, but am intrigued on why you wear a parachute in your Europa. Do you do aerobatics in it or something?
Peace of mind 
Seriously – the Europa with it’s gullwing doors will make it as easy as it can get to bailout in an emergency. In combination with the appropriate harness from Schroth with only one central lock, automatic activation of the chutes and a minimum opening hight of 80m AGL this can be a realistic “last option”.
I’ve been actively looking now at some Europas that are for sale. They vary from circa £20k up to £50k+.
The £20k ones are older classic models with more basic panels and the 80hp engine. The expensive ones are XS models and are very nice indeed with turbo engines, lower hours, constant speed props, glass panels, auto-pilots etc.
I possibly could just about find £50k to spend on one at a stretch. Should I? I think there are some compelling arguments. The adage of buying your last plane first and all that. I could jump straight in a turbo tri-gear from day one and progress up to some serious touring without having to do anything further. All my aviation time available can be spent on flying. I think a more capable plane would encourage more trips further afield sooner.
A £20k classic monowheel would be a more involved ownership experience, perhaps what non-certified is supposed to be all about. The plane could literally grow with my skills. I’d have to do conversion training and make lots of practice on mono handling. I’d have to upgrade the plane in terms of extending the baggage bay and upgrading the prop – VP is considered almost a must-have on a Europa. I might want to upgrade the panel to glass – I would enjoy designing and building it I am sure but it would cost a lot of time and money. The engine hours would be higher, perhaps not a concern given that I probably wouldn’t get to do that many BUT earlier Rotax engines had much less TBO than newer ones. So going forward I would be spending more time and money on the plane on the ground rather than in the air, but it would be more personalised to my liking.
I am leaning in a certain direction but I am very interested in your views as you will no doubt mention something I had not considered.
Obviously you worked out the two possible ways quite accurate. It’s actually a question of personel preference. For myself I’ve chosen the “buy your last plane first”-route and still had to modify a lot to adapt my Europa (XS TG 914) for my personel needs (beside the things I fixed for safety reasons like the electrical wiring).
That said, the bare performance regarding speed and range is not that much different between e. g. a Mono Classic 912 and an XS TG 914 (the Mono having more range and the TG 914 maybe 10kt more speed at the cost of 5 l/h more fuel burn).
If I were you, I’d focus on my mission profile (the current one and the one I probably need in the years to come). OTOH you can change many things on the Europa, even from Mono to Trigear. With the Europa you have all the choices which is beautiful on one side and make a decision difficult on the other…. To not loose the overview I’d also consider things that can’t be changed, like e. g. the smaller legroom in a Classic compared to the XS.
Again, I’d recommend to get in touch with the comunity and ask your Europa-specific questions also via http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=9
At the top-end prices, it would be worth looking at older certified aircraft which meet your mission profile but cost less to buy.
I’ve been told the 80hp is underpowered for short strips.
PS you’re noting the variations in empty weight and C of G in the examples you’re considering.
Maoraigh wrote:
At the top-end prices, it would be worth looking at older certified aircraft which meet your mission profile but cost less to buy.
Although an old certified would of course also eventually bring you to your destination as well – what about the fun?
Maoraigh wrote:
I’ve been told the 80hp is underpowered for short strips.
I’ve heard that, too.
europaxs wrote:
Although an old certified would of course also eventually bring you to your destination as well – what about the fun?
It depends what you regard as fun and what not. I somehow fail to see why a good certified airplane (and £50k will buy you a very nice plane if you are looking carefully and even half that may get you something nice and leaves plenty of cash to make it yours) should be less fun than a particular type. If I have learnt one bit about buying planes is to keep your mind as open as possible. There are opportunities around which are a lot more attractive than you might think.
In that segment and with the performance capabilities of an Europa, I’d be looking at e.g an AA1 or AA5/A just as an example. I’ve also seen really nice Beech 19/23’s for very few money. They make nice travellers for two and bags. Not to mention that there are lots of nice Cherokee 140ties around which are probably the cheapest planes to maintain and fly in that segment, but I’d still go for a Grumman if I had the choice, more bang for the same buck. There are also nice two seaters available, but imho the best travellers for two are usually 4 seaters…
This one came to my attention:
http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=36173
Lovely AA1, very well equipped and cared for, was flown by a friend of mine until a few years ago when he sold it to Germany.
europaxs wrote:
I’ve been told the 80hp is underpowered for short strips.
I’ve heard that, too.
There is a simple way to decide this: Any aircraft that needs significantly more runway for take-off than it needs for landing (in normal conditions without excessive effort) is underpowered.
The reverse is not true: there are no overpowered aircraft. :-)
Mooney_Driver wrote:
In that segment and with the performance capabilities of an Europa, I’d be looking at e.g an AA1 or AA5/A just as an example. I’ve also seen really nice Beech 19/23’s for very few money. They make nice travellers for two and bags.
A Europa XS will take two up with up to 36 kg of luggage and full tanks with an increased MTOM, like I have on the dutch register. I’ve been on trips with full fuel, fully loaded cabin with two (normal sized) adult and two complete camping gears. The Europa gets me there with >130KTAS on 20 l/h Mogas. Believe me, you cannot do that with a certified on a comparable budget.
As far as fun goes, well, I’ve flown a couple of certified SEP. A Europa will fly circles around a PA28/C172. If you feel like, cruise at FL200 in excess of 170KTAS with a turbocharged Europa Monowheel. Bore holes in the sky with crisp controls, a climb rate of 1000FPM fully loaded……..What is the climb rate of a fully loaded Cheetah in summer?
Mooney_Driver wrote:
If I have learnt one bit about buying planes is to keep your mind as open as possible. There are opportunities around which are a lot more attractive than you might think.
Long overdue update…
So I tried to buy a nice 914 Europa monowheel back at the start of the year. The deal fell through however and the aircraft ended up going abroad. I have a few theories on what was going on behind the scenes but I’ll save that for another day.
I went to see a few older 80hp mono-wheels but was shocked at the poor condition. They’d need a full overhaul.
I then went to see an absolutely gorgeous 914 tri-gear. Probably the best condition and spec’d one in the UK. Fully ready for IMC approval with the LAA. I was very tempted except for the price and somewhere to base it. My preferred airfield was full. The next closest is on the side of a hill with short runways that put me off and after that they start getting a bit far away. Still, I kept thinking about it and was about to spend a LOT of money (more than it was worth according to many) when…
Completely out of the blue a share popped up for sale in a Pioneer 300 based at my closest and preferred airfield. Now, I’d always been a bit wary of a group, let alone a group in a Permit aircraft. However it seemed rude not to look into it a bit further.
Spec-wise it was very similar indeed to a Europa in range, speed, payload etc… in fact it improved on them in some ways. It ticked almost all of my wish-list items from post #1. It has a retractable tri-gear so gives efficient flight and no funny handling characteristics. It was based only 25 minutes away. The group members I’d be sharing it with seemed good guys, don’t fly it much so availability is excellent and one was a CRI. I figured that, for a third of what I was planning to pay for a Europa, I could get a similar plane that I stood a good chance of flying a lot more with some willing group members to help me along. A great chance also to find out what sort of flying I really like to do without over-committing myself.
So I bought it. The CRI did the conversion with me on it from our home base and I haven’t looked back since. It’s an excellent plane and I am in the process of building up experience when time off work and family commitments allow. I’ve learnt loads from getting involved in the maintenance. Hoping to do some longer trips over the coming few months and then look to Europe next year.
Thank you to everyone on the forum for sharing their wisdom that has helped me become a happy aeroplane owner.
