Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Pros and cons of non-certified aircraft

1. Figure out what you want to do with your aircraft (performance and operational)
2. Work out how much you want to spend
3. Buy the newest/best equipped aircraft you can afford
4. If that is a homebuilt understand the rules in detail, and how they change, throughout Europe, go back to 1. Understand the availability of spares and competent maintenance. Understand what you can and can’t do.
5. If that means building something yourself, do you understand the commitment required?
6. Buy a certified aircraft to fly while building, but realise there are no inexpensive, reliable certified aeroplanes, unless you own a maintenance company.

United Kingdom

I’ve had my fair share of worries as a co-owner, and finally sole owner, of an experimental aircraft. But whatever the problems and frustrations, nothing beats the thrill of flying a Lancair. I love that ‘plane, however much grief it’s given me. I could never go back to anything less, and the day I can no longer fly it for whatever reason, I will probably quit. Nothing else comes close.
The world – and culture – of homebuilding is a special niche, and I think you need to be directly involved to appreciate it properly. These guys are passionate about what they do, and they have enormous aeronautical/mechanical/engineering culture. As a non-builder (unfortunately), I’ve learnt so much from them. Each to their own, I guess, and that’s the way it should be, but I will stick with a non-certified Lancair – or nothing

Happy flying, Jenny

Bordeaux

PS I’ve been flying homebuilts since 2002… Difficult to go back

United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Post #56 contains a lot of disingenuous info which I hope nobody uses to help them decide which route to take in Europe.

I wonder how you define “Europe”. According to common knowledge (Wikipedia in this example), Europe is:

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

If homebuilts could fly VFR and IFR freely around Europe I would probably be flying a Lancair IV now, or even the Evolution (that’s a great thread to read, on the general subject) which I looked at closely, and the certified scene would have probably more or less collapsed except for PPL training, not least because many new aircraft types would also appear, as “factory assist” kits.

Then the national CAAs would have to act to stem the loss of licensing income (because maintenance companies would no longer need approvals) and would restrict the homebuilt activity; perhaps by banning the carriage of passengers There would also be massive lobbying under the table by the maintenance industry.

Most people can’t do any maintenance so one would have most of the planes maintained by companies like at present on the certified scene.

For local VFR flying, and some carefully chosen distance stuff, it evidently seems to be a great option.

Incidentally, does the UK LAA allow factory-assist builds onto the G-reg? We had a thread on this before and the official answer I recall was No, but in practice (one inspector told me) one could not tell if say an RV imported from the USA had been built under such a system, or under whatever other process, because usually there would be no records. The LAA inspector would just have to do a careful inspection, which might mean removing some skin.

Welcome to EuroGA, Carbon_copy

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

You didn’t answer my question Besides, the situation here up north, where homebuilts with 100% certainty can fly freely, also IFR, is that they in my experience tends to fly in VFR conditions. At least nothing you wouldn’t be able to fly VFR on top, or at least EIR. A homebuilt aircraft will never be a Cirrus with de-ice and chute, or a Da-42 with de-ice and an extra engine. Never is probably a strong word, but none exists today.

From what I gather from this site, IFR on the continent (except Germany and France and Spain and …) is 90% to circumvent a disaster of an airspace layout and hopeless ATC. We have none of that here.

Things are changing also. A modern VFR only homebuilt (or microlight) with glass, moving maps, AH, synthetic terrain, autopilot etc. is very different than the typical steam gauge C-172 from the 70s. Although not adviceable by any means (and illegal), they are fully capable of flying in the soup, low level with no viz. In practice what this means, while keeping it legal, is that VFR today in a modern and fully equipped microlight is very different, and much more capable and safer than the typical Cherokee or C-172 from the 70s. Especially in difficult terrain (mountains and valleys) and bad weather, this is important. SD alone has revolutionized VFR cross country. Add to this AHRS with synthetic vision on a big screen in front of you. VFR is a different concept altogether than only a few years back. It’s not entirely without practical reasons that the top of the line microlights sell as good as they do.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Here is the reality of VFR/IFR flights with a N registered homebuild (Europa XS) flying in Europe. This is based on real permits that I got during the last 10 years. To get a permit it typically takes between 10min and 3 days after submission.
Country IFR/VFR
Germany no limitation
Belgium no limitation
Czeck Rep no limitation
Poland no limitation
Sweden no limitation
Ukraine no limitation
Denmark VFR only
France VFR only
Austria VFR only

Belgium

ploucandco wrote:

Here is the reality of VFR/IFR flights with a N registered homebuild (Europa XS) flying in Europe. This is based on real permits that I got during the last 10 years. To get a permit it typically takes between 10min and 3 days after submission.
Country IFR/VFR
Germany no limitation
Belgium no limitation
Czeck Rep no limitation
Poland no limitation
Sweden no limitation
Ukraine no limitation
Denmark VFR only
France VFR only
Austria VFR only

Interesting (the interesting part emphasized). A non-European homebuilt does not go under ECAC, and therefore needs explicit permission.

I was reading through latest edition of a local GA magazine today. One of the newest additions is a Backcountry Boss. It is a 4 seat (homebuilt) “SuperCub” that someone here imported. Looking at the paint scheme, it looks to be this one (on LN reg now):

Definitely a “pro” for non-certified

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Ploucandco must be based in one of the very few countries where long term N-reg homebuilt parking is allowed. Most of Europe disallows it after something like 28 days. Germany was one exception I recall, with 180 days, and some way to repeat this. We have some long threads on this topic. It also happens in some countries where a discreet hangar is available but I am not going to write about those

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Germany was one exception I recall, with 180 days, and some way to repeat this.

My understanding based on conversation with owners of N-registered Experimental aircraft based permanently in Germany is that the practice requires periodic renewal of permission, but that there is no restriction placed on indefinite renewals.

I recall something about yearly renewals with operations limited to a satisfactory, no-issue number of days per year… But my memory in that regard may be incorrect.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 23 Jun 18:10
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top