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Placement of portable devices in the cockpit

Stuff you are supposed to.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I also write down about an A5 full of notes on a typical international IFR flight.
ATIS, IFR clearance, Taxi clearance, assigned frequencies, assigned headings/levels/directs, etc.

I think it’s just a matter of what you’re comfortable with. If you’re an airline pilot and fly 1K hours per year, you’ll probably note less down as what I do…

Last Edited by lenthamen at 01 Jul 11:46

If you’re an airline pilot and fly 1K hours per year, you’ll probably note less down as what I do…

You would be surprised I don’t fly airliners, but smaller jets commercially and we have to write down a lot of stuff (much more than I could scribble into an iPad, but probably my younger “first officers” would have no problem with that). The number of signatures alone requires one sheet of A5 paper… then we have to record time checks above each waypoint on the PLOG, fuel checks every hour, altimeter checks every hour, and write down cleared altitudes . And of course the last minute changes on the W&B sheet. Most of that could be done on the iPad apart from the signatures and the W&B changes on which especially the French ramp inspectors insist on the paper form. Luckily, all the rest (flight order, weather, NOTAMS, flight plan, maps, charts) is now paperless.

But I know that a large Geman airline now flies completely paperless. They use notebooks with special tamper-proof USB memory sticks onto which all their input is transferred. After landing they get downloaded into a host computer for archiving. But the technology involved is still too expensive for a small company like ours and until now only runs on notebook computers for which we have no space in out cockpit.

Last Edited by what_next at 01 Jul 12:01
EDDS - Stuttgart

I do the same as Peter and write down every clearance and frequency which soon degenerates into a scrambled mess on the paper. How do you do this using the IPad? I have tried to go paperless but find it too difficult.

EGBW, United Kingdom

I had my iPad Mini on the Yoke using RAM mount, but I did not like it, because it covered up partially the lower panel instruments, and I could not freely move the Yoke all the way back. Instead, I screwed on a mount on the passenger seat rail. The construction is sturdy and lightweight, and the aluminum rod can be bent.

A side benefit of this arrangement is that the iPad Mini is not overheating anymore, due to direct sun exposure, and reflects less glare. I also can turn it to the copilot.
RAM POD I Universal No-Drill Vehicle Mount with 18 inch Rigid Aluminum Rod and Diamond Adapter RAM-B-316-1-238U

Last Edited by Lucius at 01 Jul 14:08
United States

I found taking notes on an iPad not workable. My handwriting looks like one from a 5 year old toddler. Besides, not much fits on it, and you can’t scroll. Also ForeFlight still crashes quite often for me, about one time every two hours, in which case you loose all your handwriting. I don’t see anything wrong with a knee board and a paper block.

United States

I use a knee board with the iPad Mini too, on my right knee, mostly to record voice communications with ATC. I’d submit that the biggest technical problem in aircraft and flying is the unreliabilty of voice communication with ATC, which could be a thread all its own.

I tried mounting a full sized iPad on the other size of the cabin diagonally as per Lucius’s photo but found that my outstretched arm was not stable enough to operate it in rough air. Maybe a little closer would’ve worked but I switched to a smaller iPad on the left side. I’ve had no problems with the iPad crashing (also running Foreflight), but FWIW it’s mounted with a fresh air vent blowing directly onto it.

What’s a yoke?

Last Edited by Silvaire at 01 Jul 14:18

I agree with difficulties operating ForeFlight in rough air. However, I believe this is true no matter what mounting option you choose. ForeFlight went the cheap route when adding support to the iPad Mini by not handling UI differently. As a consequence everything is too small, from fonts, buttons, symbology, and button spacing, causing a lot of fat fingering. Also the UI, at times, is sub optimal. Why do I have a print button on an approach plate? I don’t carry a printer in my plane. Why is there a button (with almost identical symbology to the button next to it) to turn on instruments, when I am not connected to an stratus 2 with built-in AHRS? Why so much unused white space wasting screen real estate? ForeFlight was ahead of competition, but not anymore. I thinking, not renewing anymore, and switch to Garmin Pilot.

United States

agree with difficulties operating ForeFlight in rough air. However, I believe this is true no matter what mounting option you choose.

I found only that I can push the buttons more accurately when the iPad is close to me. If only the same up close accuracy applied to my eyes, life would be good!

(I’ve had to wear reading glasses and hat when flying for the last 3 or 4 years anyway, which gives me the full old man look )

Last Edited by Silvaire at 01 Jul 20:38

I want to see a screenshot showing how somebody writes clearances etc on their Ipad. Several people have mentioned on forums that they do this but nobody has posted a picture yet. I will believe it when I see somebody actually doing it, at the required speed, and doing it before doing the readback which, in IFR enroute conditions, is normally expected pretty well instantly otherwise you get a reminder. I have tried the writing facility on the Ipad 2 and it’s rubbish.

Why so much unused white space wasting screen real estate? ForeFlight was ahead of competition, but not anymore. I thinking, not renewing anymore, and switch to Garmin Pilot.

It sounds like this is an IOS app which would not make it into the Apple shop today. Normally Apple are quite picky about how the user interface works. A stupid example is the way in which the on-screen keyboard sometimes covers the field into which you are supposedly entering the text! Every device I know has this problem, though not always – except the Ipad. The functionality may at times be poor but the UI normally works right.

Last Edited by Peter at 01 Jul 21:39
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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