Ramp check at LDVA, and signoff for a preflight check

Happily in around a quarter of a century of flying, I have never met a ramp checker, not officially anyway. What do they look like, do they have unforms, carry identity cards. How do you know that they are not just some odd person who has managed to get airside or a jobsworth. Who gives them their powernajd how are they trained?
Ignorance is bliss and I was quite content until this thread.

Ramp checkers like the one mentioned by the thread starter also apply the “logic” of bureaucracy. Fortunately for us, they can only apply it as far as it has made it into the regulations, ehich are buresucratic enough.

Ibra wrote:

For private owners under Part-NCO

There are other aircraft than EASA aircraft. Part NCO or Part M means nothing to them. For “normal category” aircraft, now EASA, things have changed 3 times about this very thing since I got my PPL. In the flying I do, which involves several different categories of private “ops”, there is at least 4 different regulations about this very issue. They cannot all be “wrong” or “right” when looking at it from a pure technical-operational point of view. It has very little to do with it. Whatever the regulations say, you go with, and you sign where you are supposed to sign.

The only thing that makes sense to me is a daily inspection, and a signed one. Preflight is more of a pilot thing and part of the flight rather than part of any maintenance. You don’t sign the run-up either, even though it is done after pre-flight and before the flight.

Ibra wrote:

or not at all, if he was the last guy to fly it)

I beg to disagree. You know, your airplane is like your uncle Ernie – one moment he was cracking jokes, the next he was dead from a heart attack. I do a walkaround before every flight. Perhaps not as thoroughly than on the first flight of the day, but still.

For commercial ops (airliners CAT or commercial GA = hire, PT, instruction), it always seems to me that you need a tech log signed off (with initials ) before each flight

For private owners under Part-NCO, I really don’t see where this comes from some you please en-lighting us with a ref to the rules?

Of course, one would inspect it before flying it (or not at all, if he was the last guy to fly it)

When I think I come to the following conclusions:
- I perform a preflight to be as safe as possible before I board the plane. I would do it regardless of any regulation.
- Documenting it doesn‘t make the plane more airworthy than before.
- Doing a preflight is only a very small part of really determining the airworthiness of an aircraft – that is what the annual is for.
- Simply accepting every bullshit is what leads us into more and more nonsense and regulations that have never been proven to be effective or usefull
- Till today I missed the logic of bureaucracy, but that might come someday

Just my 2 cents …

Cobalt wrote:

a documentation of pre-flight checks other than in the M.A.306 tech log is not on that list,.

That’s not my fault But if you think instead of just quoting regulations, why do you perform a preflight? And if you haven’t documented it, what makes the airplane airworthy?

I’m not for more regulations and more bureaucracy. As I said earlier, I sign wherever I am supposed to sign, if for no other reason than to follow the logic of bureaucracy.

I don’t really see how commercial/private makes any difference here.

The regulations. If you don’t see it, I recommend you look more carefully.

Part M.A.306 “Technical Log System” says

(a) for CAT, commercial specialised operations and commercial ATO operations …. the operator shall use a technical log system …

The remainder of M.A.306 does not say anything about signatures for pre-flight checks, but the AMC requires it, as was already pointed out.

Objectively a preflight (or daily check) is done to assure the aircraft is airworthy.

Of course. Part M.A.301 #1, with a very helpful AMC that explains what a pre-flight check is, just in case somebody forgot.

LeSving wrote:

Airworthiness is supposed to be documented

Can you perhaps point us to the regulation that specifies that everything in general has to be documented? M.A.305 “Aircraft continuing airworthiness record system” makes specific requirements on what these records are supposed to contain, a documentation of pre-flight checks other than in the M.A.306 tech log is not on that list,.

I don’t really see how commercial/private makes any difference here. There may be differences between certified and not certified but maybe not. Objectively a preflight (or daily check) is done to assure the aircraft is airworthy. There is no other reason to do it. Airworthiness is supposed to be documented, and a signature or initials are the simplest way this can be done.