Uninsured for anyone not on a US car insurance, I believe, so likely not for you
Not necessarily. When I still lived in the UK I bought rental insurance for exactly this kind of scenario. Can’t remember the company now, but I’m pretty sure they’re still around.
Just want to say thanks once again for all the fantastic advice!
Why would a crew car be uninsured if the owner allows you to use it? My US cars don’t have named drivers in their insurance policies, and anyone is covered at least for liability (or more depending on my coverage details) as long as they have my permission to use the car.
In relation to comprehensive coverage, my philosophy anyway when using somebody else’s car is that if
I break it, I pay to fix or replace it. The same goes for rental cars unless I choose to buy extra insurance.
Crew cars are generally (not always) provided on the basis of the driver having his own car insurance, which most US residents have. This doesn’t work if you are from UK because your UK insurance absolutely doesn’t cover driving in the US. There are companies offering UK visitors insurance for US rental cars, but these do not cover loaned cars – I’ve checked – exhaustively. So if you borrow a courtesy car, you’re on your own.
Not to say I haven’t done it – I have, many, many times. I’ve driven full-size pickup trucks and even a minibus on this basis, but driving uninsured is a violation in some states.
However, be aware that Uber has transformed the picture for US aerial touring if you just want to go downtown for lunch or an overnight. No more waiting for cabs that don’t turn up, waiting in line for rental cars and often getting stiffed for the privilege or driving an uninsured unmaintained jalopy that will get you a ticket if something happens.
For me, turning up at small untowered airports without prior arrangements, Uber is as much a revolution as the GPS that I used to get there. I can’t emphasis it enough.
“Car Insurance” is not an adequately descriptive term in this instance. What I think they’re telling you in effect is “you break it, you fix it”, not that their road registered car is legally uninsured for road use unless the driver of the moment individually insures it – in 48 states that would be illegal for the owner of the car, and I don’t believe legal liability coverage would be restricted to the owner. Also, in many or most of those 48 states the government won’t process a periodic vehicle registration without proof of liability insurance, proof in many states being provided via an online system by the insurance company, referencing the vehicle’s VIN.
The only places in the US where the car could be legally registered for road use without liability insurance are the two states that don’t require it – New Hampshire and Virginia. If I were using a crew car in those states specifically I would check it out before driving the car.
Insurance coverage for damage to any car is another matter, but for a crew car this is no different than your own car. Obviously it’s not legally required, its between you as driver and the owner, who may or may not be you. Two of my three cars and all of my ten motorcycles aren’t covered by ‘hull’ insurance and as mentioned if I damage a vehicle I’m driving (whether my own or somebody else’s property) I expect to pay to fix or replace it. Using a crew car may be no different for me than when renting a car in the US without buying optional extra coverage (liability comes with the daily rate by law) or when driving those of my own vehicles that lack ‘hull’ coverage.
Uber and Lyft are certainly a great thing, so much better than taxis, and if there’s a driver in the area it’s an ideal solution. The only issue is that at some airports where I fly there is nobody in the area, never mind an Uber driver.
As an aside, and not on topic the most incredibly economical place I’ve used Uber is Mexico City not long ago, the equivalent of $7 USD for a half hour ride. I left 50% tips and still couldn’t figure how the numerous, friendly and very traffic-competent drivers were making money at it. There was no point in driving anywhere.
Very interesting contribution Silvaire, thanks. As a visitor, you can’t really tell if a crew car is road legal and some of them, frankly, shouldn’t be! If we can rely on them having third party cover for any driver, foreigners included, then that’s a great relief. The value of the car itself is often negligible so the worst outcome would be that you’d have to replace it.
Regarding insurance, many (most) FBO’s require renter’s insurance, which is inexpensive because what you are insuring is the owner’s deductible. This is easily obtained by giving a fake address, but none of the well known brokers will insure against a foreign address. I’ve been advised (by a broker) not to use the FBO address – an hotel just down the street is just fine. So this is another dubious area. My own cover, after long discussion with the broker does acknowledge a foreign address in correspondence but nowhere on the policy documents, which have to be sent to a US address.
I know of a Brit who got paid out on one of these fishy arrangements, but is paranoid about them coming after him.
Just a footnote: I got very casual about paying for full cover on rental cars. “I’m a safe driver” etc.. I landed at Cody, Wyoming, to visit Yellowstone. The young lady at Hertz was very insistent about the full cover – “There’s lots of deer around here”. So I took her advice. Returning from the park, a deer ended up on my bonnet (hood), shook himself and strolled off, apparently uninjured. Not so the car, which was stove in at the front – $$$‘s. In the morning, I said to the young lady “remember what you said about deer?”. She didn’t even look at the car and I never heard anything.
I suspect you’ll always have liability insurance in a crew car (because at least in the states I’ve lived in, to renew the annual registration you’ve had to show evidence of insurance for the vehicle in question).
However, the legally required liability insurance is very low in many states. While in Europe we are used to liability motor insurance being for £millions at the very least (and legally, they have to be), in many states the minimum liability coverage is only a few tens of thousands – so while you will be legally insured, if you do cause a bad crash you might be on the hook for a lot of money, so you’ll have to decide whether you can accept that risk.
As for the flying question, don’t discount Texas: it’s pretty aviation friendly, and once you go out west you do start encountering some really good places to visit. My last flying vacation in Texas, we ended up in Alpine and rented a car there, and stayed in Terlingua Ranch (you can also fly in there, but we didn’t fancy taking the Tiger without checking it out first) and spent a few days around the Big Bend national park. I’d definitely do that again.
If you are a low-land pilot, avoid the high country flying unless you get a high altitude checkout. Flying in the mountains is not safe for the untrained. I used to have an interest in a flight school and rental business in San Jose, CA. We lost two aircraft, one Arrow and one Musketeer. The arrow was caught in a downdraft near Mount Rose near Tahoe and crashed into the Truckee river. The Musketeer pilot asked to rent my Cherokee Arrow I had on lease back but he and had no experience with high altitude airports. I refused and told him he was going to kill himself without training, He did, along with three others as he barely got airborne at Colorado Springs on a 10000 foot plus long runway.
NCYankee wrote:
get a high altitude checkout
True words. I was visiting an FBO at the N Las Vegas airport when a group of four large British lads walked in, straight off the London flight. They’d booked a PA-28 to go to Grand Canyon GCN, elev. 6600’! The FBO asked me to stay around while he explained things. Maybe 2 of them could go with me? Err, no, not to GCN in a 172. Amazingly, one of them had a twin rating and the FBO was able to switch the reservation to a more suitable aircraft for the next day.
We loaded them and their stuff into my car and I drove them down to the Fiesta hotel, next to the airport. As I drove in, the car grounded out on a sleeping policeman!
Out there, 2 is enough in a 172 SP. Most of my trips are solo, so I only have to argue with myself. Passenger always have other priorities and tensions are very distracting. One time I did bring a close friend, another pilot, across the Rockies. He was distinctly queasy above 10,000’. Anyway, hour upon hour of my company in a 172 is quite very wearing!
alioth wrote:
minimum liability coverage is only a few tens of thousands
Of course that’s right. I did look into this and discovered there’s no technical reason why a foreigner can’t buy US car insurance personally from typical providers, giving a US accommodation address and being open about country of residence. Snag is, the minimum premium came out at around $800 p.a., which is a lot of Uber rides. And that was years ago.
