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Retracting flaps on touchdown to maximise braking?

Pilot_DAR wrote:

the 1981 182 RG, it is a recommended procedure in the POH

Same on 1978 P210

Antonio
LESB, Spain

For the 1981 182 RG, it is a recommended procedure in the POH (page 4-20) to retract the flaps for maximum braking. I have seen this in other Cessna retractable POH’s over the years too.

To reduce pilot error, it became a design requirement in the 60’s that the landing gear selector must be located to the left of the engine controls, and have a wheel shaped knob, and the flap selector be located to the right of the engine controls, and have a flap shaped knob. I’m not staying this prevents errors, but its the best attempt.

Good pilot practice, particularly for multi engine planes, and particularly when hands start flying around during emergencies, is to place your hand on the intended control, and before moving it, feel the knob shape, note which control it is (particularly left or right for multi’s) and state “X identified, selecting Y position” out loud. This creates a pause in the hands flying around, and allows your mind to include what’s really happening/going to happen, and perhaps re think it, if a knob selection error has been made.

Whenever I land an RG, and reach for the flap selector at any point, I’ll state: “Flaps identified, retracting” then move the knob. So far, so good…

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

Days with gusts usually have a decent wind component

Indeed, there is a wind/gust point where you would fly asymmetric faster approach on sideslip than slow steep approach on high AoA

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

Steep on high AoA you are still lot exposed to gusts

Days with gusts usually have a decent wind component, so there’s generally less need to go for maximum effort short landing technique, because the headwind factor hugely shortens the ground roll (and steepens the approach) anyway.

With gliders we always factor in the headwind to our final approach speed. Days with wind, our approach speed is a little bit higher.

Last Edited by alioth at 13 Nov 12:14
Andreas IOM

Airborne_Again wrote:

It is often said that you shouldn’t trust POH performance values because they were obtained by “factory test pilots”

I have heard that some times Talking about ancient technology here (Cessna, Piper etc) it’s similar to engine operation. These engines are manual with several levers and with a limited and less than accurate set of sensors. The certification of the engine in the air frame was all about using the limited set of sensors together with the levers to prevent the engine from being damaged. Today we use ECUs for this, a much better approach. However when doing the certification, the engine had a vast array of sensors installed for exact monitoring and recording. It’s exactly the same with aircraft performance parameters. They are set to always be within the flight envelope at any given circumstance.

But even so, FIs today generally think/believe that these performance numbers are “faked” to give an impression of greater pay load, more fuel, longer endurance, higher alt etc. This is done exclusively for marketing purposes (according to the FIs ) AND remember that those numbers only can be achieved if you are a test pilot to start with All nonsense of course, and it say a thing or two about the utter ignorance of some FIs

Anyway, back to braking. I learned to use as little (wheel) braking as possible. Better to do aerodynamic braking with a high nose (nose wheel) than to even touch the brakes. A perfect landing is a landing where the brakes isn’t touched. In snow and ice, the brakes has close to zero effect, so better get used to it. Speaking of which. In this very moment I received a message about ski operation, a course being held. No brakes with skis. Have to attend that course

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

There’s a good bush type flying video about high AoA on steep approaches (with high AoA), and minimum energy.

Steep on high AoA you are still lot exposed to gusts (most STOL videos are done in cold calm days for a reason ), however, you tend to have plenty of ground under due to geometry, the only problem is if you want to go-around you need to lower AoA for climb (lower the nose a lot and you already have high VSI)

Shallow on high AoA is clearly big NO, no height & no speed & no go-around, all you need is a blip in the wind to go to the rats

Last Edited by Ibra at 12 Nov 16:32
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

alioth wrote:

There’s a good bush type flying video about high AoA on steep approaches (with high AoA), and minimum energy.

Looks like a technique you’d want to practice at altitude. A bit slower and “That’s all, folks!”.

Fly more.
LSGY, Switzerland

yep, and also here quite a few examples of Retracting flaps on touchdown to maximise braking



Last Edited by Dan at 12 Nov 15:15
Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

Aiming point. Touchdown point. The mantra of the mountain rating

Pig
If only I’d known that….
EGSH. Norwich. , United Kingdom

The thing is a shallow dragged in approach makes it hard to consistently touch down accurately at the intended touchdown point. It’s always easier to be accurate with your touchdown with a steeper approach.

There’s a good bush type flying video about high AoA on steep approaches (with high AoA), and minimum energy.



Andreas IOM
43 Posts
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