Selling a used KX155A in the US

Silvaire wrote:

I have a KT76a transponder and wouldn’t mind having a spare

@Airborne_Again Your first KT-76A customer?

Jesse wrote:

When shipping these the some large firms in the USA (with 10 at a time) they just would says, sorry 9 are out of spec (while they were not, when measured when removed), so we can ship them back on your expense, or we can keep them and toss them away here. As I do carefull shipping, I highly doubt that they where being honest, so I stopped working like that

Why doesn’t that surprise me?

I think about half of the world’s shysters and flakes have bought/sold in aviation or are currently doing so. Certainty so in the US. The odd thing is that you also find some of the world’s most honest people in aviation, I suppose the situation results from it being such an emotional field.

I have a KT76a transponder and wouldn’t mind having a spare, I already have spares for my nav and 760 channel comm bought at low cost. The thing that prevents me (annoyingly) from getting a cheap spare transponder is that the labor required for ADS-B Out in 2020 will be less if I go to Mode S versus UAT. In every other way I’d prefer UAT… so for now I do nothing but wait for others to work out the bugs.

As said before, the Barnstormers web site is good for finding individual customers if you look out for the plentiful shysters and flakes. The site was started by somebody I know, and has been a huge success.

Airborne_Again wrote:

Is this true for trade-ins as well? E.g. if I buy a new KT74, I can trade in a working KT76A or KT76C. Would I be better off selling them directly to a customer in the US using eBay or somesuch?

Yes! A working KT-76A trade in on a KT-74 would be 225 USD, excluding shipping back. You should be able to get more then 225 USD excluding shipping in the UK to private customer.

When starting with mode S upgrades a traded in quite some KT-76 models. I tested them before the got removed. When shipping these the some large firms in the USA (with 10 at a time) they just would says, sorry 9 are out of spec (while they were not, when measured when removed), so we can ship them back on your expense, or we can keep them and toss them away here. As I do carefull shipping, I highly doubt that they where being honest, so I stopped working like that.

If you have a unit removed, and it’s fine, just sell it online, to another private individual, you both get a better deal, and likely this guy is happy with your unit.

There are also American companies travelling trough Europe. I have seen some prices they offer, but those are really low as well. For that kind of money, my low offers are even high. I can not make higher offers for equipment I can’t reinstall. This is different on equipment that can be used here. So I always encourage my customers to try and sell that kind of equipment themselfs.

IME you get a lot more selling it separately.

I have sold at least $10k of stuff on US ebay at prices consistently well above what e. g. SE Aerospace offered me.

OTOH it is more work to create the listing etc. And the usual ebay hassles potentially.

Sometimes you can sell direct to someone. Try the for sale section on some US site. Often the person is actually a dealer in disguise but do you care I got 2.5k for my 10 year old KCS55 kit.

Could you explain, not sure if I understand?

It is the relative lack of EASA AML STCs, for vendors other than Garmin.

One could argue that Garmin eating everybody’s lunch anyway is a coincidence

For example, de KCS-55 system is just to expensive to reinstall. You will spend far more on labour, then for installation of an Aspen, therefor it doesn’t make sense.

However, I think that again Aspen’s EASA STC is a factor there. It has become very popular because it delivers a lot of “bang for the buck” but that would have been of little use in Europe if they didn’t have the paperwork.

Then you have the much greater amount of freelance activity in the USA. In Europe, even where it could be done, most (non N-reg) owners are scared of managing / unable to manage a freelance installation.

The end result of all this is that the range of “interesting avionics” in Europe is a lot narrower than the range of “interesting avionics” in the USA.

And Germans can’t do it because their avionics serial numbers are checked at each Annual, so they would have to resort to heating up the stickers with a hair dryer …

You know interesting things ;-) Never ever were the numbers of my devices checked at an annual. And if a device failed and I bought one with a form on ebay, the avionics shop would change the number.

Peter wrote:

Europe is a funny market for avionics because EASA’s dodgy restrictive STC practices have handed a monopoly to Garmin.

Could you explain, not sure if I understand?

Peter wrote:

I would never take out my KLN94+KMD550 because that stuff does everything needed in Europe

Equipment which is in Europe “worthless” are like mode C transponder, 25 kHz radio’s, as these can not be reïnstalled. So these must be sold abroad. When as an avionics shop you try to sell a large lot to another shop, prices are quite low. Prices for private sellers is better, but a lot of work. This is why it is best to sell it yourself to the end customer.

Equipment which is not “worthless” is equipment then can be easily installed in other aircraft.
For example, de KCS-55 system is just to expensive to reinstall. You will spend far more on labour, then for installation of an Aspen, therefor it doesn’t make sense. These don’t make to much sense for experimentals either, because they can have much nicer equipment at even lower prices, and do the installation themselfs.

I got $1500 for a mint condition KX155A from South East Aerospace about 4 years ago.

Later my 2nd one (the original was replaced with a KX165A/8.33) developed a dodgy display and I regretted selling it so cheaply

But then the display sorted itself out and has been fine since…

Europe is a funny market for avionics because EASA’s dodgy restrictive STC practices have handed a monopoly to Garmin. Throw in the poor competence of many installers and the resulting desire to stick to well known gear and it’s no wonder they tell you the old stuff is worthless.

In the USA people have much more choice and there is a lot more general expertise around, much helped by the lack of restrictive practices around component documentation. In Europe, anything without an 8130-3 or Form 1 (if new) or without a Form 1 (if used) is “worthless”, unless you have a helpful engineer and do it off the books.

And a lot of people out there value their existing (say, 1990s) avionics because the King stuff from that era more or less just keeps on working. I would never take out my KLN94+KMD550 because that stuff does everything needed in Europe, but one day I will have to because LPV will become operationally relevant (currently it isn’t because – to a UK based pilot – every airport of relevance either has an ILS or has some IAP which can be flown with a GPS). And the USA doesn’t have this 8.33 crap (wholly a product of yet another Euro restrictive practice – a refusal to pool frequency allocation between sovereign countries) so the good KX radios will always be in demand in the USA.

Loads of European pilot-owners swap like-for-like (failed) avionics with stuff off US Ebay, obviously off the books, but they are still a small market. And Germans can’t do it because their avionics serial numbers are checked at each Annual, so they would have to resort to heating up the stickers with a hair dryer and transferring them Also selling stuff across Europe is hard due to cultural/language differences.