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SEP IFR airplane with TKS/De-Ice?

But a lot of people think it terms of “deiced = able to penetrate fronts in icing conditions” etc and for that you also need radar.

…and arguably a turbine. FIKI equipment, even though in theory OK for light to moderate conditions, is there to allow you to get out of icing conditions, which in IFR means usually a climb on top. I am not sure I would trust my chances in a piston FIKI having to descend through nimbo stratus, in icing conditions to shoot an approach. Climbing on top in the first place, in these conditions, may be a challenge in any event. Convective icing tends to switch to severe in a heartbeat, and anyone experiencing this in a piston gets religion quite quickly.

If you risk manage your weather tolerance perhaps a hot prop is all that is required, and a draggy wing – some types tolerating some ice better than others.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

If you see what happened to a couple much more serious airplanes like TBMs (New Jersey, France accidents) and some others you know that our little toys better stay out of ice as much as possible. I’m not looking for any near death experiences …

Last Edited by Flyer59 at 21 Nov 18:41

Flyer 59 agree entirely – I enjoy my icing encounters via Ernie Gann’s Fate is the hunter, with hot toddy and on terra firma.

TKS is quite ‘amusing’ when some of the panels pores clog up, or the plumbing is faulty, and one wing develops a nice mohican.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

There is a weight penalty for TKS systems. there is the weight of the pumps pipes and other kit, plus the weight of the fluid you need to carry. It adds up to quite a lot, so the useful load is compromised.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

On the SR22 there’s also a 2-3 kt speed penalty because of the panels … the first 22s without TKS had top speeds up to 186 KTAS, with TLS it’S never more than 183

On a TB20 there is a payload loss of about 50kg for full TKS.

I think most people don’t fly with much fluid in the system and quite a few fly with NO fluid in the system

There is a “management issue” with full TKS in that say 30 litres of the stuff is really heavy (I would swear it is a lot more than 30kg but probably not) and you can hardly just pick up the drum and pour it in. You need to be allowed to keep a drum in the hangar, on some sort of trolley. Where I have been based for the last 12 years this would not be allowed (two different hangars).

OTOH rubber boots are “always” blowing holes and where I was hangared till recently they were constantly repairing the boots. One Seneca owner elected to not have them repaired and soon afterwards embedded himself and his family in the side of a French mountain, in icing conditions. Whether the boots were a factor I don’t know but clearly it is a hassle for owners too – just a different kind of hassle to full TKS.

If TKS was without issues and I could find an installer who doesn’t make a complete hash of the job, I would install it tomorrow…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

OTOH rubber boots are “always” blowing holes and where I was hangared till recently they were constantly repairing the boots.

No they are not Peter. Maybe the plane you were hangered with was but this is not the norm.

Last Edited by JasonC at 21 Nov 22:20
EGTK Oxford

Actually, my TKS tank is always full. Wouldn’t it be pretty stupid to have it and fly around with an empty tank?
I think the specific weight of the stuff is lighter than water.

I have the fluid in a plastic container and a simple plastic tube with a (how do you call that simple “squeeze” type pump in the tube?) … Of course when the tank is full TKS fluid is running down the fuselage onto the (wooden) hangar floor … it’s always a mess!

Mine has only a capacity of about 15 litres, good for 1 hour in normal mode (prevent ice accreation) or 30 minutes (deice).

If de-icing boots are getting a lot of punctures it is often because they are really old. In fact Goodrich talk about life “in excess of 3 years” if the appropriate care products are used. These products protect the boots and keep them supple. In practice they last a lot longer, but not forever. I know of a 2005 King Air that was sold this year, and I know it had the original boots and no repairs on most if not all of them.

I have seen many an old twin with boots that look like the boots are the originals from the manufacturer, and the aircraft is 30 years old. Unsurprisingly they are brittle and probably crack when used, hence needing repair. There are maintenance limits on what repairs can be done.

All de-ice and anti Ice systems have drawbacks. The nicest and in many ways most effective are bleed air heated leading edges, which are on many modern jets. The drawback of these is the power which is used: In the climb the performance is noticeably degraded (although still sprightly) and in the descent you have to be sure to keep a minimum power setting or they don’t work.

Last Edited by Neil at 21 Nov 23:16
Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

How about Thermawing ?
It’s approved on Colombia or Cessna 350/400, pending on SR22.

LFLY, France
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