Turn Stall Training - Why don't we do it?

To add another argument: there is a tremendous number of deaths (FI and student) training stalls at low altitude.

a_kraut wrote:

To add another argument: there is a tremendous number of deaths (FI and student) training stalls at low altitude.

Oh please – “Tremendous”? That sounds like a Trumpism. Facts?

Cobalt, clearly one doesn’t play at stalls at 500ft but the thought behind the incipient spin recognition and recovery training, carried-out at sensible altitude, is to teach the lesson that cannot be learnt for the first time at 500ft.

Dave_Phillips wrote:

Oh please – “Tremendous”? That sounds like a Trumpism. Facts?

Fact: I did notice airfield emergency services are always on standby anytime an FI + student go for Ex 10 & Ex 11

LeSving wrote:

On my check ride for PPL I had to do a stall while turning. IMO there is only so much you can squeeze into basic training. Maybe it is better to focus on the very basic, do that well, rather than spread out on all and every eventualities. This doesn’t mean there is any particular reason why one thing is thought and other things aren’t. If we had to learn every bit about flying in PPL training, we would never finish.

Agreed, I don’t think the purpose of the private pilot checkride is to ensure pilot education is finished, only to produce a pilot who can carry passengers safely on basic flights in a training aircraft. I don’t know why “we” don’t learn to stall in turns. I did. I think the right approach is to encourage new pilots to understand that that learning and doing is a good and necessary thing. License to learn, and all that.

I also did stall recovery in turns in my PPL training in CZ. I think the exercise is called recovery from a precursor to spin or something. There was the standard nose high, low power, 15 deg bank, wait for stall warning, and I remember doing another with a skid turn. I think the skid turn version was to emulate what happens with some pilots when they turn too late onto final and then try to steepen the turn with the rudder.

Stalls in turns are part of the EASA syllabus for flight training and the skill test. The FI is supposed to teach them. However, @Andi, if you feel the need to update your training, we surely can arrange some lessons, if you like. I’m passing through HH quite often.

the stall speed increases with bank

I think we should re-phrase that, because it’s a potentially lethal inexactitude. We can bank any aeroplane to 90+ degrees right at the bottom of the white arc with no possibility of stalling the wing – as long as we don’t haul the stick back.

It is the pointless “level turn” (without loss of altitude) which is the killer. I’ve no idea why PPL(A) students are taught from day one to keep the nose on the horizon in a turn. Perhaps to prepare them for instument flight which 90% will never do.

Jacko wrote:

as long as we don’t haul the stick back.

This is a very good thread. For example this one was caused directly by the extra G in a turn (I had that 1st hand, but the AAIB report is out now anyway). The recovery is extra hard because if this happens, you aren’t expecting it (on some types the break can be very fast, often with a rapid wing drop) and you are already in a roll so not in the best position. Whereas a stall in wings-level flight tends to be preceeded by loads of cues.