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Upgrading UL 3-axis to PPL outside Germany (and German ZUP / ZÜP)

Hi,

since some of you know, I have the German ultralight-3-axis-license since 2014 and have flown nearly 150 hours since then. Since I have a little son now (2 years), I’d like to upgrade to a PPL, to be able to have more than only one passenger on board.

Since I am no friend of the German “Zuverlässigkeitsprüfung” – complete rubbish imho – I would prefer doing my PPL abroad. I have already read about the fly-in-spain in Jerez who do “Flying holidays” – you do the training there within 3 weeks and get the license after that. You can either chose between the Austrian or the UK license.

The thing is that I need to use this license in Germany then. Can you give me some tips, which choice would be the best? I already have the “original” Class 2 Medical (not the LAPL one). What I would also prefer is that the flight school will credit some of my flight hours on the microlight.

After a few years I’d also like to upgrade to IFR, if that’s already relevant now.

Thanks in advance for your help finding the right training school!

Regards, Tobias

EDIT: Additionally English level 4 (upgradeable to level 5 if needed) and English radiotelephony is already done…

Last Edited by TobiasM at 02 Oct 20:57
EDSO, Germany

TobiasM wrote:

What I would also prefer is that the flight school will credit some of my flight hours on the microlight.

In the UK, you can get that via NPPL(M) to NPPL(SSEA) then PPL(SEP) routes, but probably not the best option to fly back in Germany
Under ATOs, you can credit up to 10h PIC toward Part-FCL PPL/LAPL, so only 35h/22h to get there

ESSEX, United Kingdom

Is it no longer the case that a conversion of a UK NPPL(SSEA) to a Part-FCL licence requires the NPPL(SSEA) to have been granted before 8 Apr 2018? See note to UK conversion table (link). local copy

According to UK CAA (link): If you hold an NPPL SSEA licence that was issued after 7 April [ 2018] and you wish to obtain a PPL licence, you will need to do the PPL course (sitting all PPL exams, meeting the hours requirements and taking a PPL Skills test). You may receive up to a maximum credit of 6 hours from your NPPL. local copy

London

Qalupalik wrote:

NPPL(SSEA) to have been granted before 8 Apr 2018?

Sorry my mistake I forgot about that one, I guess there is no appetite to get modular/competency based routes for PPL/LAPL?

ESSEX, United Kingdom

I did the same you are thinking about. After about 140 hours in advanced UL I decided to proceed with PPL (to be able to rent decent plane for intl. trips). I chose local aeroclub near Prague as most cost effective option as there is really no difference whatsoever in the syllabus between UL and PPL, at least over here. You know 95% of the stuff already. You are entitled to be credited 10% of your UL PIC time (max. 10 hours) towards your PPL, so only 45 hours needed. You can do the theory exam in English in Prague as well.

Prague
Czech Republic

Hi,

thanks for your answers so far. Regarding the training in the UK, I’m a little worried due to the Brexit – as long as it’s not clear how the bureaucracy will work between the UK and the EU after everything is done it’s no option.

The training in the Czech Republic sounds better, but how about the flight training itself? I don’t speak a single word in Czech… so the flight training should also be done in English.

Glad to hear from you!

Tobias

EDSO, Germany

My FI is a Travel Service (Smartwings) captain, so no problem there. There were loads of foreign ATPL students from Czech commercial schools doing exams in English when I did my PPL and IR exams. As per sitting the official theory lessons I can ask, but I don´t see a problem there. Your German Class 2 medical is fine. Czech CAA will issue your licence even with your German address.

Prague
Czech Republic

The option in Jerez sounds favorable (do it quickly and in one go) to get an Austrian license.
From reading forums many PPL students are frustrated by the time it takes (lack of planes, FI schedules, weather).

Make Aviation Great Again
Europe/Austria

Doing this just to avoid the ZÜP seems like a dubious motivation at best. Why the extra hassle when the ZÜP itself is so easily done?

Note for non-Germans: We’re talking about a centralised security/police record check that all applicants and holders of a German pilot license have to undergo since the September 11 attacks.

Novice pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

For mere private pilots, the ZÜP is not that much an issue, because, should a problem ever arise, it will not be the end of the world, but merely the end of their flying.
But it is potentially a huge problem for commercial pilots, because their job and income hangs on it.
So don’t play done the issue with the ZÜP, even if YOU don’t see the problem.

For Tobias: I would not go to places abroad JUST BECAUSE of the 30 or 40 quid per hour that you might save. It’s overall not worth it. These savings might easily be eaten up by the travel costs (or any other additional costs which come along your away). If you search well, you might be surprised how comparatively cheap some flying / flight instruction in Germany can be, especially at the small rural clubs. So, unless the ZÜP gives you a headache, I would do the PPL more or less locally. Of course, the ideal thing might be to do the PPL locally, and THEN Transfer it to say Austria.

Mainz (EDFZ), Germany
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