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So, I just got my FAA IR ticket, but I am ignorant..

NCYankee wrote:

In the US, that is true and also purely academic with no practical use

It’s also academic in most places in Europe and but worth understanding how it ‘works’ as the principals are exactly the same (airspace structure and controllers procedures changes though)

Last Edited by Ibra at 30 Jun 14:49
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

You need an IR or IMCR, and that’s good for Classes D-G.

@Peter, B-G, so it could include Class C TMAs as well (as per ANO updates either 2016 or 2019).
Only Class A is prohibited…

EGTR

Ibra wrote:

To fly IFR in Golf, you need an IFR aircraft and IR rated pilot, no clearance or flight plans are required !

In the US, that is true and also purely academic with no practical use. You can’t cruise in Golf at any altitude lower than the MIA, which is never below 1200 AGL. So you are required to climb to the MIA, which puts you in Echo. There used to be areas where Golf extended to 14500, but these have been almost all eliminated with the advent of RNAV using GPS.

Last Edited by NCYankee at 30 Jun 13:27
KUZA, United States

IFR rated pilot to be more inclusive of all the 50 shades of grey: IR, EIR, BIR, FAAIR, CBIR, IRR, IMCR, FN-IR…

PS: I was referring to US, no flight plan & no clearance is required to operate IFR in Golf according to FAR

Last Edited by Ibra at 30 Jun 13:25
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

To fly IFR in Golf, you need an IFR aircraft and IR rated pilot, no clearance or flight plans are required !

You need an IR or IMCR, and that’s good for Classes D-G.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

NCYankee wrote:

entering class E without a clearance is a violation

That is the elephant in the room, it’s entering controlled airspace under IFR, it’s very different from flying in clouds while in Golf?
To fly IFR in Golf, you need an IFR aircraft and IR rated pilot, no clearance or flight plans are required !

Last Edited by Ibra at 30 Jun 12:53
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Airborne_Again wrote:

The only real problem would have been if he was still in IMC when entering controlled airspace. Apparently he wasn’t, but did he have reliable knowledge of the cloud tops before takeoff?

In practice, this is very difficult to do. Once in class E, 3 miles visibility is required by 91.155 along with cloud separation of 1000 feet above, 500 feet below, and 2000 feet laterally. The visibility is the easiest to comply with. So even with 100 miles visibility above a 100 foot thick ground fog layer, at 701 feet AGL and entering class E without a clearance is a violation. It is true you are in visual conditions, but not legal VMC defined by 91.155.

One way that this might not be a violation of 91.155 would be the clouds are local to the airport and one is not above them when entering class E and the point of entry into class E is more than 2000 feet from the clouds in G, but this was not the case.

KUZA, United States

Jeppesen Europe Airway Manual can have useful information in “Air Traffic Control – State Rule and Procedures” section regarding Z/Y flight plans (and I- from uncontrolled airports). For example, in Switzerland it would tell you to call certain number before departure to obtain joining clearance, and Austria has several airports with IFR approaches terminating at certain altitudes and requirement to switch to VFR after that.

EGKR, United Kingdom

Airborne_Again wrote:

The obstacles would have been no less dangerous if he did have an IFR clearance

Indeed, but you are using your brain here to avoid obstacles not your instrument clearance…

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

tmo wrote:

Seems to me he got slapped (90 day suspension) for trying to show the finger with people watching.

Or it was because of culturally motivated perception of risk. We see in Europe that what is standard procedure (even by airlines) in some countries are considered extremely dangerous in others.

The reasoning in this judgement really makes no sense. The obstacles would have been no less dangerous if he did have an IFR clearance. There was a risk of mid-air collision, but I would say it was very small and in any case the FAA had no objective argument. The only real problem would have been if he was still in IMC when entering controlled airspace. Apparently he wasn’t, but did he have reliable knowledge of the cloud tops before takeoff?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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