This is just totally random. What is the relevance of the CPL?
Ibra wrote:
Can CPL licence holders add an IR with CBIR theory & CB-course?Sure! Even if they are CPL holders who have taken the ATPL theory course (which covers the theory part of the IR), they can do the practical training accordingto the CB-rules.
Maybe useful to move this whole CB-IR discussion to its own thread?
Done 
What are the exact requirements for crediting the UK IMCR dual time towards a CB IR, and exactly who can do the 30hrs freelance time?
The standard answer is that the IMCR FI needs to be an IRI but those are very rare. Also even then the FTO might reject it totally. Other posts have other info – this one says 15hrs will count anyway while this one and others after it I can’t really work out. Also the regs change over time.
My son did his IMCR with an FI who is not an IRI, and probably can’t train the IR (because while he is an ex airline pilot he has been running his small school). What credit is available for that (15hrs actually done)?
AIUI one can do 30hrs freelance outside an FTO. Another local FI I met is an “FI IR” but not an IRI. How much can he do?
IRIs are hard to find and expensive due to travelling distance.
What exact questions should one ask an FI as to their qualifications?
Then there is the challenge of putting the N-reg TB20 onto the FTO’s “books” and last time I asked (2012) the local one would not do it, but that’s ok if you have to do say only 10hrs there (one can fly to another one, daily, or stay in a hotel locally).
Peter, AFAIK only the “instrument time” from his IMCR course counts towards the 30hrs, not the total block time. IMCR mandates that least 10hrs should be logged like that.
Two ways to gain the rest of the time required:
1. With IRI.
2. PIC XC IFR under real or simulated IMC, which means if he flies PIC XC IFR (in real IMC or under the hood with you in the right seat as an observer), that should cover.
And 30hrs-10hrs = 20hrs is not much for a cross-country flying in typical SEP – few flights to Scotland and back, right?
Loads of urban myth around about this and many people quote from outdated regs
Best summary around is:
https://www.ontrackaviation.com/CBIR.html
An FI who holds (g) privileges is an ‘IRI’ – IRI is just the standalone certificate
Peter wrote:
What are the exact requirements for crediting the UK IMCR dual time towards a CB IR, and exactly who can do the 30hrs freelance time?The standard answer is that the IMCR FI needs to be an IRI but those are very rare. Also even then the FTO might reject it totally. Other posts have other info – this one says 15hrs will count anyway while this one and others after it I can’t really work out. Also the regs change over time.
This question is best answered by quoting the actual regulation: (Section Aa.6. to Appendix 6 of part-FCL.)
6. The method of attaining an IR following this modular course is competency-based. However, the minimum requirements below shall be completed by the applicant. Additional training may be required to reach required competencies.
..(a) A single-engine competency-based modular IR course shall include at least 40 hours of instrument time under instruction, of which up to 10 hours may be instrument ground time in an FNPT I, or up to 25 hours in an FFS or FNPT II. A maximum of 5 hours of FNPT II or FFS instrument ground time may be conducted in an FNPT I.
….(i) When the applicant has:
……(A) completed instrument flight instruction provided by an IRI(A) or an FI holding the privilege to provide training for the IR; or
……(B) prior experience of instrument flight time as PIC on aeroplanes, under a rating providing the privileges to fly under IFR and in IMC,
……these hours may be credited towards the 40 hours above up to maximum of 30 hours,
….(ii) When the applicant has prior instrument flight time under instruction other than specified in point (a)(i), these hours may be credited towards the required 40 hours up to a maximum of 15 hours.
….(iii) In any case, the flying training shall include at least 10 hours of instrument flight time under instruction in an aeroplane at an ATO.
….(iv) The total amount of dual instrument instruction shall not be less than 25 hours
(For MEP, the requirements are similar but with 5 additional required hours.)
So training given by an IMC(R) FI which is not an IRI will give a maximum of 15 hours credit. But if the applicant has flown IFR as PIC on his/her IMC(R) rating, any instrument flight time (not IFR time) will also count, up to a total of 30 hours.
But, of course, in the end the ATO will determine when you are ready for the flight test. It may be that any instrument flight time you have as PIC on an IMC(R) rating has only been in straight and level flight, in which case it will probably not help much.
That Ontrack summary is pretty clear.
(ii) When the candidate has prior instrument flight time under instruction other than specified in (a)(i), these hours may be credited towards the required 40 hours up to a maximum of 15 hours
suggests that 10hrs (where does the 15hrs come from; the 5hrs is a lot more than ground taxi time) of the IMCR is credited regardless of who taught it, which is good.
But if the applicant has flown IFR as PIC on his/her IMC(R) rating, any instrument flight time (not IFR time) will also count, up to a total of 30 hours.
That looks very good, because it is easy to log instrument time in Class G. But what evidence do you need to submit? We did that around here and it looks like you need to be on an IFR flight plan (which is easy) but what stops the CB IR ATO going back to old metars etc and disputing that you were in IMC? You will be on the autopilot anyway, if flying in IMC for hours; only a superman, or a masochist, would hand fly.
Anyway, taking the above two together, that adds up to 40 (or 45?) hours, which is great, because you get that just for the cost of the plane (no new dual time needed post-IMCR). Am I missing something?
Then there is the overriding “10hrs at the ATO” requirement:
(iii) In any case, the flying training shall include at least 10 hours of instrument flight time under instruction in an aeroplane at an ATO
but that’s ok because you could hang out at the ATO for the 1 week that takes.
It seems to me that Step 1 has to be to find the ATO and talk to them and clear up with them in writing what their requirements for evidence etc will be, before embarking on 30hrs of long distance avgas burning, especially avgas burning with a £50/hr IRI in the RHS
This question is best answered by quoting the actual regulation:
In an ideal world, yes, but clearly different ATOs interpret it differently and some disregard the credits totally. ATOs are packed with Chinese (etc) customers who deposit 80-100k there without any question; you are not in a good negotiating position
Peter wrote:
It seems to me that Step 1 has to be to find the ATO and talk to them and clear up with them in writing what their requirements for evidence etc will be, before embarking on 30hrs of long distance avgas burning, especially avgas burning with a £50/hr IRI in the RHS
I had the impression, irrespective of experience, the ATO will do an evaluation and get you a tailored program which roughly have an estimated number of hours? it’s not contractual but it’s the list of things that one would be missing here and there in the full syllabus…
I did 3 CBIR/SE evaluations: one in UK (I was told to expect 15h in aircraft), Poland (I was told 5h sim and 15h in aircraft), one in France (15h sim and 10h aircraft), the latter was the cheapest but least convenient, the former was the most expensive but I could train on weekends, I did overshoot but I have to say most of the hours have to do with the hassle trying to fly approach in UK SE and joining CAS if your home airfield does not have some easy ways (3h of flying for 2 IAP slots) unless IRI/ATO are adventures about flying to France or Jersey but then you are not practicing the “test airways routes”, but honestly, this part of the flying is a walk in the park
I used to hold IMCR that I used regularly, actually, I flew the heck out of it in the first 2 years more than I would ever do on the IR
