On your EASA CPL, what class ratings do you have?
My guess is going via the EASA CB IR path would work.
Single Engine IR: 30 previous hours can be credited, you’d need 10 hours at an ATO + Skill Test
Multi Engine: 35 previous hours can be credited, you’d need 10 hours at an ATO + Skill Test
(25 hours must have been “dual”).
Easiest ist to get Single Engine IR and then add Multi Engine IR to it (takes around 5 hours).
The holder of a single-engine IR who also holds a multi-engine class or type rating wishing to obtain a multi-engine IR for the first time shall complete a course at an ATO comprising at least 5 hours instruction in instrument flying in multi-engine aeroplanes, of which 3 hours may be in an FFS or FNPT II.
Snoopy wrote:
On your EASA CPL, what class ratings do you have?
I don’t have it yet, this thread is preparation in advance for once I have it. AustroControl have said they would issue me with a “clean” CPL(A), whatever that means. They said they can’t recognise anything from my UK PPL. Worst case that means there are no ratings at all? Or only SEP as that’s the aircraft for the skills test?
So I would need to do at least 10h SE-IR + ST and 10h ME-IR + ST.
That’s 20h dual instruction and the two skills tests. I’m looking at at least, what, 8k EUR or so?
It seems like it will be cheaper for me to build the 50h PIC XC IFR in the UK?
Alpha_Floor wrote:
It seems like it will be cheaper for me to build the 50h PIC XC IFR in the UK?
If you plan to fly those 50 hours anyway, that’s the point, right?
That is if you don’t have any time limits on when you need your EASA IR, then yes, it is cheaper – all you need is a book to read and then pass the skills test (again).
I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think it is possible to issue a CPL without any class/type ratings as you would have to be rated in at least one class or type to complete your CPL LST.
arj1 wrote:
If you plan to fly those 50 hours anyway, that’s the point, right?
That is if you don’t have any time limits on when you need your EASA IR, then yes, it is cheaper – all you need is a book to read and then pass the skills test (again).
Thanks for your help!
There are time limits. I need to have the EASA IR before October 2021 because that’s when my ATPL theory will expire.
Also, I wasn’t intending on flying 50h in the UK as I was considering leaving the country to move to Germany or Spain.
I would have to very intensively build those hours. It should be possible to build them in under 2 months if I fly intensively in the weekends.
Pirho wrote:
I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think it is possible to issue a CPL without any class/type ratings as you would have to be rated in at least one class or type to complete your CPL LST.
Yes, I would have thought the same as you, but I’m not 100% sure. In any case I believe Austro will issue me with an EASA CPL(A) with a SEP, the class used in the skill test, and nothing more. No MEP, no Night VFR and no ME-IR.
Alpha_Floor wrote:
Let’s assume the following scenario of a licence holders who has:UK PPL(A), SEP, MEP, NVFR
UK ME-IR
UK ATPL Theory (which is valid for EASA)
EASA CPL(A)
Total flight time: 230h total, 130h PIC, aprox 60h instrument flying instruction (in SIM and aeroplanes)
In this situation, what’s the easiest way to obtain an ME-IR on the EASA CPL(A) making use of the UK ME-IR and instrument flight experience? Is it as easy as going to an EASA ATO, training as required (potentially no training required at all?) and doing the ME-IR skills test? Are there minimum EASA ATO training requirements?
Your UK ME IR is a valid ICAO IR, right? You have prior IR Instruction (1) and IR PIC time (2)?
*1 → 15 of 40 hours can be credited
*2 → 30 of 40 hours can be credited
Either → ATO → CB-IR SE 10 hours → SE IR Skill Test → MEP Classrating → ME IR Skill Test or
ATO → CB-IR 10 ME hours → ME IR Skill Test
For FAA to EASA IR there is a greatly reduced theory exam (iirc)? I don’t know if this is applicable for FAA to EASA or any ICAO IR to EASA?!
(a) A single-engine competency-based modular IR course shall include at least 40 hours of instrument time under instruction, of which up to 10 hours may be instrument ground time in an FNPT I, or up to 25 hours in an FFS or FNPT II. A maximum of 5 hours of FNPT II or FFS instrument ground time may be conducted in an FNPT I.
(i) When the applicant has:
(A) (B)
completed instrument flight instruction provided by an IRI(A) or an FI holding the privilege to provide training for the IR; or
prior experience of instrument flight time as PIC on aeroplanes, under a rating providing the privileges to fly under IFR and in IMC,
these hours may be credited towards the 40 hours above up to maximum of 30 hours
(ii) When the applicant has prior instrument flight time under instruction other than specified in point (a)(i), these hours may be credited towards the required 40 hours up to a maximum of 15 hours.
(iii) In any case, the flying training shall include at least 10 hours of instrument flight time under instruction in an aeroplane at an ATO.
(iv) The total amount of dual instrument instruction shall not be less than 25 hours.
A multi-engine competency-based modular IR course shall include at least 45 hours instrument time under instruction, of which up to 10 hours may be instrument ground time in an FNPT I, or up to 30 hours in an FFS or FNPT II. A maximum of 5 hours of FNPT II or FFS instrument ground time may be conducted in an FNPT I.
(i) When the applicant has:
(A) completed instrument flight instruction provided by an IRI(A) or an FI holding the privilege to provide training for the IR; or
(B) prior experience of instrument flight time as PIC on aeroplanes, under a rating giving the privileges to fly under IFR and in IMC
these hours may be credited towards the 45 hours above up to a maximum of 35 hours.
(ii) When the applicant has prior instrument flight time under instruction other than specified in point (b)(i), these hours may be credited towards the required 45 hours up to a maximum of 15 hours.
(iii) In any case, the flying training shall include at least 10 hours of instrument flight time under instruction in a multi-engine aeroplane at an ATO.
(iv) The total amount of dual instrument instruction shall not be less than 25 hours, of which at least 15 hours shall be completed in a multi-engine aeroplane.
(c) To determine the amount of hours credited and to establish the training needs, the applicant shall complete a pre-entry assessment at an ATO.
I don’t know if the CB-IR ME above requires a prior ME Classrating?!
Snoopy wrote:
Your UK ME IR is a valid ICAO IR, right? You have prior IR Instruction (1) and IR PIC time (2)?*1 → 15 of 40 hours can be credited
*2 → 30 of 40 hours can be creditedEither → ATO → CB-IR SE 10 hours → SE IR Skill Test → MEP Classrating → ME IR Skill Test or
ATO → CB-IR 10 ME hours → ME IR Skill Test
Thanks Snoopy.
My UK ME-IR is a valid ICAO IR, yes.
I have:
(1) 51 hours of instrument instruction (of which 21 in aeroplanes and 30 in FNPT II simulator)
(2) 4 hours of PIC IFR time
BTW: this instrument instruction time was completed at an EASA ATO in the UK before 2021, if that’s worth anything. And the CBIR CCC is dated in March 2020. Is it not still valid? Could I not just use that CBIR Course Completion Certificate and go on an ME-IR skills test in EASA with an EASA examiner?
If I do the second route you mention, will I also get a MEP class rating alongside my ME-IR rating? Also, does ME-IR also include SE-IR, or are they independent?
Finally, does an IR already “include” a night rating, or will I have to get the night rating separetely? Or does the CPL “include” a night rating?
Snoopy wrote:
For FAA to EASA IR there is a greatly reduced theory exam (iirc)? I don’t know if this is applicable for FAA to EASA or any ICAO IR to EASA?!
Well I still have my UK ATPL theoretical exams (until October this year). Austro Control have confirmed they will accept them for my CPL application. That’s enough, correct?
Snoopy wrote:
I don’t know if the CB-IR ME above requires a prior ME Classrating?!
It doesn’t. But it does require having completed the 6h MEP training. The MEP rating need not be on the licence.
This is my case as I obtained the ME-IR first, issued on my licence, and then completed the MEP skills test at a later date. Although possible, this must be very odd because the examiner was pretty confused when he saw my licence.
