boscomantico wrote:
FWIW, I was of course looking for options to land outside of official (full-staff) opening hours, not for keeping the the airport open longer (which costs the aircraft operator a lot of money).
Weirdly enough, extending op hours by PPR does not cost the airport user (as opposed to the operator) a terrible amount depending on the airport. LESB is like EUR60
one might not be able to get in/out
This will not happen at AENA airports during published op hours, but if you land at closing time then take 20 mins to leave aircraft or try to enter more than 30 mins in advance of opening time then you may have problems
the restircted use hours do bridge the gaps on weekends, but don’t bridge the huge gaps on weekdays
It is still way better than it was!
handling is mandatory at Spanish airports…?!?
“Only” those which state so in section 20 “local procedures”, unfortunately an increasing number. This is done for two reasons:
a) At large airports on safety and other practical grounds
b) At smaller airports to incentivate handling agents, although this will never be openly admitted (safety is quoted instead)
whether one can get customs/immigration to work during restricted use hours
Customs/immigration work to their own timetable and if unavailable at certain times within the airport’s op hours then it will be published like in the LERJ case above. This is another recent big improvement to get a small airport like that to offer customs in Spain where GAR does not exist.Otherwise the ‘intl airport’ category is rather nonexistent at Spain’s small airports hence restricting them to Schengen flights (even if they have customs agents on site like at LESB)
can you pay landing fees during restricted use hours? I see AIS/ARO is open, but Ops?
OPS at these smaller/restricted airports will be same team as those supporting AIS/ARO, which will be published as above for LERJ
Mod plse feel free to indicate if this is too much of a thread diversion
So, taking Logrono as an example:
Looks like there might be a lot of pitfalls…
OK, I will look at the respective AIP entries and see if I can make any sense out of it. (*)
FWIW, I was of course looking for options to land outside of official (full-staff) opening hours, not for keeping the the airport open longer (which costs the aircraft operator a lot of money).
(*)I do have the doubt that it might not be usful for visitors in case of fenced Airports (i.e. all of the Spanish ones), since one might not be able to get in/out without any “staff” (a bit like in France, where most airports are technically 24h, but praticially speaking, those which are fenced are a problem, unless you know the location of some secret doors, doorcodes, etc.)
boscomantico wrote:
have been reading this for a few years now, but still never understood how this has been put into practice.Could you name a couple of airfield examples where the opening hours are x to y, and where I can land my Cirrus outside these hours in compliance with the rules?
Unfortunately I don’t have a detailed register and do not know if it is available. I can indeed give a couple of examples.
Back in 2012 most AENA airports with low traffic had its opening times restricted as a (very questionable) measure to save costs. Those that used to be SR to SS lost 1-6 daily opening hours, but also some of those operating at night. Most of those had their restrictions either lifted or mitigated over the last three years , and most are subject to extended opening hours (at least +1) with PPR and extra fees. Relevant email address for the ppr is usually on the AIP and usually one week ppr or more is required but you may be lucky with two or three days.
A couple of examples:
LERJ went from SR/SS or therabouts to restrictions all week long and especially on weekends (open winter sat 6-10 sun 17-2030, I think they call it “customer-focus” only the focus is on ensuring GA customer stays away) but they now allow restricted use (non commercial) sat 11-17 and sun 0930-1700 with a 1hr lunch-break
A similar thing occurred at LEBA and LEBG
LESB went from SR/SS to winter 0815-1545, but allow 1wk PPR extensions to SS subject to approval. This is more useful in Spring and later in Summer.
PS: In the “operating hours” section in Spain’s AIP, ‘restricted use’ means they only allow non-commercial operations
Antonio wrote:
-Extension of formerly restricted opening hours at somer AENA airports
I have been reading this for a few years now, but still never understood how this has been put into practice.
Could you name a couple of airfield examples where the opening hours are x to y, and where I can land my Cirrus outside these hours in compliance with the rules?
I agree with @aart on the basic reasons for the demise.
Having said that there is now some consciousness that this is a problem and some initiatives are timidly starting to take place with impact on Spain’s GA:
-Extension of formerly restricted opening hours at somer AENA airports
-Change in AESA piston engine OH requirements
-Change in EU regs for non-commercial ELA1 & ELA2
All in all too little too late. If there really was a political will to help GA, perhaps the biggest thing that could be done at EU level at this stage would be the elimination of fuel tax for GA. I am certain that the overall (ie beyond aviation) economical impact would be positive. How to politically build a case for that is the real problem, but there are euro-lobbying experts in this forum too.
As to efficiency…I have to brag a bit: our under-$200k part-23 aircraft uses three times as much fuel per hour as a 140ktas -20lph UL (is the latter really true?) , but carries over three times the payload for the same range of the UL, while doing it faster, higher and with more wx flexibility, and still being able to operate from 600m grass strips. If fuel price were the same, total trip fuel costs per kg would be around the same. The penalty is of course that total trip fuel costs are still the same when I just fly my 80kg-self around, so if you don’t fly with family or friends it is not economically justified.
In any case economy is only half of the reason, the other half is the hassle factor of all the items discussed. If there is a third half, it has to be that there has been some self-inflicted damage with the arrogant, hierarchical and anti-social attitudes at some GA organizations (clubs, schools, forums…) that has also been talked about here, that has scared quite a few away, and that for some reason seems to be much less preminent in the UL world.
NPPL (microlight) restricted licence is 15 hours in the UK.
Biggest problem I have with the microlight is largely historical. People know of the PPL and nothing else.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Depends on the country as UL regulations are national matters. Sweden requires 20 hours minimum unless you have previous flight experience.
In Belgium no minimum is required to pass the exam, but you need to fly 30h solo in order to take passengers.
jvdo wrote:
…because no minimum hours are mandatory
Depends on the country as UL regulations are national matters. Sweden requires 20 hours minimum unless you have previous flight experience.
