gallois wrote:
I believe the word POGO comes from the childrens game. Hopping using a pogo stick.
Thanks! (I did know what POGO means in the context of IFR in the Paris area.)
Peter wrote:
POGO is nothing to do with AFIL.
Which is obviously my point, you can’t AFIL a POGO, I asked for once for it on approach and I was told NO, you have to be on the ground with FPL in the system to fly the POGO
Away from Paris, French ATC, do always accommodate pop-up IFR, I rarely file anything when bimbling around with nice weather, I just depart and ask for join & arrival on IAP, in some sectors that involve having an actual FPL filed for you in Eurocontrol system !
POGO is nothing to do with AFIL.
POGO is just a means to file short hops between (mainly) the Paris airports, where Eurocontrol route generation tools are incapable of generating a meaningful route, because France never supplied Eurocontrol with the rules 
In fact none of the route gen tools we have (AR, FF, RR) can generate short hops, generally. They would need a database of preferred routes and, ahem, the relevant country/ies like to keep these to themselves.
I still can’t see how AFIL could ever work in Europe. In general, when you do an IFR “pop-up”, ATC cannot just let you into CAS. They have to generate a “route fragment” along which you can fly. A controller will know what sort of routes are ok in his sector, so he can generate this. But AFAIK they don’t have access to Eurocontrol routing tools like we use, so the next sector needs to do it all again. Often, the simplest way to hack this is to call up the next sector or few and agree a long DCT. I got that a few times, most memorably when Swiss lost my entire flight plan and it took about an hour to sort it out, and during that hour I got the same route as before but a bit at a time.
From the very few instances where serving ATC are willing to talk, only some ATC units have purchased the software allowing them to create this “route fragment”. The UK never paid for it so they could not do popups even if they wanted to. They can do ad hoc brief Class A airway crossings, like the one running N-S through Exeter EGTE. France I believe did buy this add-on.
I vaguely remember Copperchase being mentioned and when you look at that, they probably wanted 10% of the national GDP for the add-on, per year 
I believe the word POGO comes from the childrens game. Hopping using a pogo stick.
In French aviation it refers to a short flight in the IFR system. La Rochelle to La Roche Sur Yon could be described as a POGO.
However, in the case of Paris airports there are published POGO routes, eg Toussus to Pointoise. Often you file these directly with Orly or CdG. They are too short in such areas to be a STAR or SID and slightly too long to be covered by publishing an IAP starting with an INI Approach chart on its own.
It may need as many as 5 changes of ATC sectors or perhaps more. When doing it in the days before GPS it certainly kept the brain in overdrive.
No idea about the acronym but it’s something like ‘Paris Group’?
POGO are IFR flights between Paris airports (also acronym in IFPS), you file DCT with POGO in RMK section, the flight plan will validate even with max DTC = 0nm restriction in Paris outside SID/STAR, that hack avoid flying SID 50nm away from Paris and 70nm STAR to go, the actual routes are published in AD AIP, they depend on wind configuration of Orly & CDG…what is interesting is they also extend beyond Paris TMA even to Beuavais, the last time, I flew IFR from Toussus to Beauvais on 2kft amsl cruise altitude (what you get when CDG on westerly and Orly on easterly), there are no holds and everything gets sorted on the ground, on the flight things go very quick: you would call Toussus, Villacoublay, Orly, DeGaulle, Beauvais…legally speaking you need 2400ft minimum safe altitude when cruising along that route of it was +/-5nm airway but on my GPS did show that cruise segment as TERM (RNAV1) like the whole thing is departure/arrival with no ENR (RNAV5)? France, require IFR to cruise above 3kft amsl and SERA require cruise above +/-5nm safe altitude, so I think POGO cruise altitudes are another exception (maybe due to RNAV1 on GPS and/or Radar in terminal airspace)
From LFPN AD AIP
Standard routes linking aerodromes located within airspace managed by PARIS CHARLES DE GAULLE, ORLY, VILLACOUBLAY approaches and neighboring aerodromes are called “POGO”. They include either an initial climb segment (See INI1 and INI2 of departure AD) or a multidirectional departure followed by a conventional navigation junction route to join the destination AD final approach procedure. These routes do not include holding procedures. Any possible delays are resolved on the ground
See more details here,
https://www.nm.eurocontrol.int/STATIC/docs/pdf/OI-19-134.pdf
I don’t think one can AFIL for POGO flights
Ibra wrote:
POGO
Is this actually an acronym? (Then what does it mean?)
France does AFIL between two sectors, it works nicely, you just ask ATC/SIV for en-route clearance, unless you are after POGO (normalised route without holds) or Paris TMA it should work
The problem with AFIL, is you need someone to close FPL after you land in some non-towred airport, this is not an obvious task, especially when an ARO guy on phone tells you they can’t find it, so you have to find the phone number of the ATC who file it before S&R go on…I don’t see how AFIL works when crossing borders under IFR but happy to know more?
My IR instructor told me it was difficult in europe, but Actually I had once, 1 year ago when returning from Marseille or Avignon. I asked to switch IFR to preserve my “3 approaches” and asked to switch IFR. They gave me a clearance and landed I IFR. What I heard about AFIL (it’s just hear-about), is that the ATC will fill the FPL for you on your declaration. I have no idea of the routing, but if you do it too far from your destination, you cannot master routing.
That would not be an AFIL. An AFIL is submitting a complete ICAO flight plan into (in Europe) the Eurocontrol system
Exactly, and anybody who actually flies IFR in the Eurocontrol system, on nontrivial flights, will realise the challenges, which, ahem, is why ATC will practically never co-operate with anyone trying it
If you are, however, 10 NM from a STAR-Fix and decide that you rather land IFR than try to wiggle through the clouds VFR, typically “DCT fix STAR APPROACH” is a valid plan
APPROACH??? I don’t ever recall seeing ILS21 listed on my IFR flight plan (SID & STAR yes)
AFAIK, the IFR IAP or APPROACH are not part of ICAO FPL for very obvious reasons
You don’t even need an IFR FPL in system (ATC or EC) to fly an IAF+RNP or RV+ILS unless approach & tower in the aerodrome are connected by wormhole and lives on different planets !
