The Overhead Join - is it dangerous?

It’s a visual circuit. People should know where to look for conflicting traffic.

So don’t climb at 2000ft/min. It takes two to tango.

They should, and mostly hopefully do, but I have been in the circuit enough times and not been able to quickly spot a particular aircraft, and neither has my pilot passenger so I can only assume that is not uncommon. I think that is why AT, pilots behaving sensibly and, as you say, everyone keeping a good look out, in combination makes the process “safe”. The incidents I have read all seem to have as a common factor one of these elements (or more) breaking down. Thinking of one in particular, a performance departure and an aircraft wide of cross wind was sufficient, possibly with both aircraft maintaining a poor look out. AT probably cant negate those elements coming together short of stopping departures until crosswind traffic has cleared (which as Peter says adds to conjestion else where with risk).

My closest encounter recenty, at an airport with A/G rather than ATC, was fast rotary traffic flying directly through the climb out. I thought that was bad airmanship, but I dont think EASA recognise that concept in these circumstances, but why you would fly through any climb out (in this case at around 700 feet) escapes me. Inevitably a good look out as you mention Dave should save the day, but it can be a busy time, and in my case, it was the traffic alert on TAS that “saved” the day. In this instance the traffic wasnt even in the circuit (albeit joining wide crosswind) but en route.

I would argue, that my lookout for what ever reason failed and so did his, but the other aircraft should not have transited through the climb out. I would add that my climb was not anything like a max. performance albeit it was in a twin and was in the cone of any departing traffic.

Dave_Phillips wrote:

So don’t climb at 2000ft/min

Again, I think people should be encouraged for quite a few reasons to climb as fast as practical. Safety of the pilot primarily, but also noise comes to mind. On arrival crossing the track of an aircraft taking off and climbing is not something I would ever do without ATC… and even with a tower coordinating takeoffs my nerves would be tingling – they don’t always have a good handle on the takeoff and climb performance of the departing aircraft. I just don’t want to be there, almost ever, and I certainly don’t want to be the guy taking off worrying about somebody ambling across in front of me with my forward view obscured! That’s just a wacko situation IMHO.

At least when making a straight in (which also gives me a nervous feeling) you can look for the guy on base and climb out if there’s a conflict.

Silvaire, yes i think as fast as practical, but surely not so fast (if possible) to fly through the cross wind. After all even in a performance aircraft you dont want an engine cut nose very high.

Personally i think if you are aware the cross wind should be the least risky because if you hear a take off clearance you tend to watch the departing traffic which is the easiest traffic to spot given its going to be on the runway.

When I were a lad I was taught to check ahead every 500ft or so. To me, undertaking a performance climb, in any scenario, without having a quick look underneath the nose every so often falls directly into the ‘safety of the pilot’ category.

Looking at the alternatives, I can think of two occasions where someone has elected to undertake a ‘direct’ join and the have failed to integrate with me already established in the circuit. Joining at circuit height on the presumption that you will see the traffic that you are trying to integrate with seems like a bit of a lottery.

I check climb every 500 ft or so after I’m past at a reasonable height, say 1000 or 1500 agl. Until then it’s max rate climb, no delay, and the ‘straight out’ track is left clear by ATC and/or other pilots, akin to a automotive drag strip… you don’t go walking across a drag strip. My plane does not have exceptionally good rate of climb, 800-1100 fpm at sea level, but I use what it has and on the upwind I don’t generally expect anybody to be in the way.

Altitude on climb out is safety, both in terms of gliding back (there is essentially nowhere off-field to land near my base) and in the US for getting up above airport traffic. If I’m following the pattern ground track for a while as opposed to making a straight out, I climb with the intent of being well above downwind traffic (either established or joining the pattern on a 45) and before too long I’ve generally climbed vertically out of the control zone and go in any direction desired. If I had 2500 fpm, I’d be up and out of the airport traffic and Class D before leaving the upwind. Two minutes from takeoff to 5000 ft would be good, and safe. There is no such thing as too much climb performance.

PS I was taught by my ex T-28 (3000 fpm climb) flight instructor friend to snake the nose back and forth a little bit to get some forward view while maintaining climb. Obviously that works to some degree.

Dave_Phillips wrote:

Joining at circuit height on the presumption that you will see the traffic that you are trying to integrate with seems like a bit of a lottery.

Actually no, it isn’t, if you do the 45deg join. You are on circuit / pattern height and see any traffic to your side and ahead. No blanking by wings. Any airplane behind you in the pattern is only an issue if he’s massively faster. That’s what radio calls and pilot-to-pilot coordination are for, although strictly speaking not necessary.

… and similar happens with the OHJ. Look, I don’t particularly have a view about either technique other than both are not failsafe; its a visual circuit and everyone should be looking-out, lots.