There are many reasons why people cannot get a Class 2 medical and an LSA medical is not much different to the Class 2 here in France
They both require an AME.
@LeSving you keep banging on about the 600kg MTOW for ULM. The French ULM association, along with the Belgians, I believe, have ruled this out, although here it has been increased to 500kg recently.
Most ULM owners cannot afford a Cirrus or its operating costs and yet that is still one of only a few certified with a parachute. Nearly all ULM’s here have the parachute.
A ULM pilot here in France does not need a PPL but to fly an RV he does.
S/he can get a ULM licence in very few hours, about 10, I think, if starting from scratch and 1 if you have a PPL and you get the licence when the instructor you fly with decides you are ready.
In France there is a large ULM community with well over 1000, zero landing fee, zero PPR, small airfields dotted around to add to the 500 or so CAP that the ULM pilot can use.
There is no annual/bi- annual tests or check rides for either the pilot or the aircraft.
Being so light a ULM can be pulled out of the hangar with ease to go for a quick evening flight, whereas pulling out the DA40 might get you thinking, can I be bothered?
No need to keep a pilot’s log or aircraft logs unless you want to.
If something is wrong with the aircraft you can fix it yourself or take it to someone who knows how to.
The majority of ULM owners not paid anything near €150,000 for a new aircraft. As in the certified world there are choices. Here there are 6 categories of ULM from the flexwing to the 3 axis and includes autogiros and helicopters. Those who want to spend the money, and there are more than you might think, for say the W9 Dynamic or the Pioneer do so with eyes wide open, and it does help that there are often good financing or leasing deals to be had.
It seems like the French UL pilots have understood the value of KISS for the whole concept of UL and it’s future. Sadly this seems to be lost further north where the development is in the opposite direction, towards certified aircraft.
I was a firm believer in getting more “certified like” aircraft, as well as operation, mostly because I didn’t see the problem. The problem is cost and complexity, and it will eventually ruin all UL activity unless the development is turned around 180 degrees.
In Norway the basic regulation say that UL activity can only be done within a safety system approved by the CAA. As of today we have only one system, and that system is heading straight into “certified” land. Anyone can create a new system however, and there have been some talk about this. Flying a plane with CS, retract, turbo at 150 kts in controlled airspace, is very different from flying at 60 kts from grass and snow far away from controlled airspace.
I do see lots of difficulties in where to draw the lines though.
Thanks Lesving.
I think Gallois has a point, at least for France.
Yes, ULs are sold to people who want to fly with no contraints. Learn quick, make a check, turn the key and fly. Just freedom to fly.
Certified GA doesn’t work like this today, either in clubs or private.
Some of those people have quite a lot of money. They can afford a 100-150k UL with EFIS and leather seats without selling the Riviera appartment. But they wouldn’t want to be bothered. And France offers plenty of destinations to fly to, with just a UL license (Corsica, Belle-Ile etc…). The kind of places where they go for holidays.
They come cheap to run ? Great ! So they can still go to Bali or the Caribbean every winter when the UL sleeps.
These people are for the vast majority not technical people, because technical jobs don’t pay as much. If Dynamic or JMB offered a go-to-and-land-at-destination, these people would buy it with their eyes closed.
Most wouldn’t be interested in an IR, even if it was cheap, because it is a lot of homework, self discipline and constant proficiency.
People with normal wages (flying budget 2-3k per year) in France today have 2 means of flying :
Here, RVs are luxury planes here because both a lot of time and money to build one. No wonder why so many are ex-Air France pilots. You can’t build any modern kit planes for less then 100k. Like Colts (not the planes), you can only take one from its owner’s cold hand
The GA “market” is definitely different on both sides of the pond.
In the US, plenty of people take on flying because it is sophisticated, demanding, technical and potentially dangerous. They are proud to be able to fly a LOC approach to minimums (sometimes), to help with their annual, have their hands dirty. They have money, and have technical backgrounds or interests. Building a plane is seen as an educational challenge, not a hurdle to bear with. People with technical backgrounds seem to make a much more comfortable living and can afford to buy/build a plane. 100k is not a big problem, 200k is doable with some efforts. Some might not agree but this is what I think, after months of reading/thinking about this.
Used RVs are a solution for cost-effective flying, because Avgas is cheap, and the fleet is large enough.
In the US, plenty of people take on flying because it is sophisticated, demanding, technical and potentially dangerous. They are proud to be able to fly a LOC approach to minimums (sometimes), to help with their annual, have their hands dirty. They have money, and have technical backgrounds or interests. Building a plane is seen as an educational challenge, not a hurdle to bear with. People with technical backgrounds seem to make a much more comfortable living and can afford to buy/build a plane. 100k is not a big problem, 200k is doable with some efforts. Some might not agree but this is what I think, after months of reading/thinking about this.
I think that describes most of the European IFR community also. Look at EuroGA
Peter wrote:
I think the #1 reason is the communityI do agree on this. After the first several years with a PPL so far, I noticed that (in Germany) the UL community is a world on its own. There is not so much cross-community-contact between UL and ‘certified’ pilots (LAPL/PPL/CPL) in my opinion. I’ve seen people buying an expensive VL3 or so, but those people are only playing ‘inside’ the UL-community and mostly have only an UL-license. There are also a lot of prejudices on both sides, as like between pilots of powered aircraft and glider pilots.
Maybe if your lady notices the leather seats and beautiful paint, you will reconsider. Once talked about the chute she will have chosen for you
The problem is most ‘plane’ pilots never flew an ‘UL’ and vice versa.
It all depends on what you like to do. I fly both, and for my mission profile, I cannot see a single reason to rent a Cessna while I could rent an UL. The only planes I still rent are Extra’s or Pitts for aerobatics, for all other flights I prefer ultralights.
They are much more fun to fly, more powerful, more agile, more modern & much cheaper to rent.
I agree a Bonanza is more comfortable, and if you fly 3h-4h flights all the time in IFR weather it’s the best choice for sure.
In Belgium you can rent an old C172 for 175 Euro / hour (115kt on a good day) or a new JMB VL3 for 130 Euro / hour (140kt), what’s your choice for your weekend flight just for fun?
Some more facts:
, but I couldn’t do that with UL.. Also, sometimes you just need some space – a picture from our trip to Nordkapp with Eurostar and CTLS, Piper had to carry most of our luggage + a canister of fuel for Eurostar :)
jvdo wrote:
The problem is most ‘plane’ pilots never flew an ‘UL’ and vice versa.
That is probably true. I also fly both and get the best (and worst ) from both worlds.
ivark wrote:
Piper had to carry most of our luggage + a canister of fuel for Eurostar :)
That’s a good use for a Piper They are good freighters.
jvdo wrote:
The problem is most ‘plane’ pilots never flew an ‘UL’ and vice versa.Thats true for sure. I also never did fly officially an UL. The few times I did, it was in Switzerland, where they don’t have a UL-classification. The new AC4, and also the C42, flies as an LSA-aircraft, for which a LAPL/PPL is mandatory. You can also log normally the hours as SEP-time.