bodensee747
The disregard of Russian pilots and engineers for safety goes further.
I saw a photo of a Russian airliner taking off with tires that the canvas below was exposed, is it a recipe for troubles?
I also saw how a Russian engineer torqued the bolts that hold the main rotor blades on an helicopter. The torques meters that were available were out of (calibration) date, so he took a metal tube, measured (by the eye) 1m arm and gave it yank and that’s it. When questioned he said that this is ok.
Eastern Block aircraft are built like tanks but the safety culture is lacking. Now you know why I don’t fly with “Eastern Block” airlines.
There is no excuse for that icing video… but to be fair there are some tires where there are more layers of canvas and some can be exposed and it is still legal. Generally I agree with your observation!
Ben wrote:
tires that the canvas below was exposed
Peter wrote:
Can anyone not see the problem with washing an aircraft below 0C, using water?
The problem is purely theoretical. I know what you think, water freezes etc and so on, and so forth. But, tap water is many degrees above freezing. It will heat up the aircraft in an instant (heat capacity of water is HUGE compared to aircraft material stuff, or car material stuff for that matter, or just about anything material stuff). The water will thaw and wash away every little snow and ice particle in an instant. When you are finished, there will of course be some residual water left, and some of that will freeze, but it will evaporate or sublimate very fast.
If the part that stays and freezes is, say, around your control cables, you’d better do your pre-take-off checks diligently.
I guess I am a chicken, but I keep the tap water (hot tap water) inside a shopping type plastic bag (or two inside each other) which I then drag across the surfaces I need to de-ice. Effective as long the airplane is not iced down completely.
denopa wrote:
If the part that stays and freezes is, say, around your control cables, you’d better do your pre-take-off checks diligently.
Of course. But this is always equally important in subzero temperatures (as it always is, in all temperatures for that matter). A spray bottle with deicing liquid that you can apply on certain areas and parts may also be a good idea? (never tried it though, but I imagine some adverse effects on oil and grease?).
LeSving wrote:
Yes. It makes no difference at “normal” temperatures. -40 deg C may be another matter though. We wash the cars here at subzero temperatures also, no problems with that either.
Well, I once picked up a rental car at Gardermoen that had been washed and stored in sub-zero. I can tell you that I spent the better part of one hour getting the doors opened, the engine started and thereafter the driver door would not shut because the lock was frozen. Temperatures were -20°C
The major drawback of deicing fluid, (and by that I mean the stuff they spray on hot from a big truck, wasting hundreds of litres on the floor) is that for weeks afterwards you get deicing fluid seeping out from hinge lines etc. Wouldn’t stop me using it if it’s needed though.
Aviathor wrote:
Well, I once picked up a rental car at Gardermoen that had been washed and stored in sub-zero. I can tell you that I spent the better part of one hour getting the doors opened, the engine started and thereafter the driver door would not shut because the lock was frozen. Temperatures were -20°C
That has happened to me as well. It’s important to drive 15-20 minutes after you have washed it, so water and ice will evaporate.
Every morning I drive through the Hell tunnel to work (nothing to do with the English Hell). It’s a 3-4 km tunnel going deep into the mountain, and the temperature there is about +10, all season. If I take a car that is snowed down, then driving through the tunnel will thaw off every bit of snow and ice. Very practical. When on the other side, the temperature is of course subzero again, and everything freezes (theoretically). But, that has never happened in the last 20 years The reason is of course the wind from the speed will evaporate water, even if it freezes up when on the other side.
There have been incidents where the diluted slush that remains after de icing re-freezes around critical control components and has caused stuck flight controls.
To keep this from happening some operators specify a two-step de-icing procedure when certain areas of the airplane are affected by icing.
Someone has mentioned it above and I can only confirm that the airplane was dripping de- icing fluid for days to come.
I know it is not the most convenient, but in my opinion “de-icing” light airplanes is best done using covers that you just pull off in the morning. Maybe there would be a market for a super super lightweight fabric that you can easily apply and remove from surfaces that are affected
But frost and ice of parking outside and no hanger available.
