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Thoughts - new business venture

I don't know of any UK pilots who ever used the Jepp charts, because the UK CAA ones are basically good

I tried the Jepp VFR charts just once, and gave up - they omitted many of the airfields I was interested in flying to. The CAA charts are IMHO better.

I'm surprised the paper chart market is drying up. I have a GPS (Skydemon) which is very good, but in the event of a problem with it I think it would just not wash with the CAA (or any other regulator) if I then got lost as a consequence of not having a paper chart to back it up with, so I always want a paper chart, folded appropriately for the flight, despite having the GPS.

Andreas IOM

After my experience with the missing bird sanctuaries in Denmark (perhaps now rectified?) It'll be a while before I trust SD for low level VFR in place of Jepp or ICAO printed charts. And I carry two ipad / SD's and an iPad charger. A police helicopter pilot got heavily busted in Holland for infringing one of these things, although I believe the case has been reversed now.

But to the subject: a deal with SD to sell it over the counter would be attractive to a proportion of PPL's who still don't have it. (Quite a few judging from the recent airprox magazine). And reposessed, often unused, iPad's are freely available on eBay, creating a retail opportunity to sell a complete package and still make a margin. Add to that the accessories - ext GPS, chargers, cases,velcro to stick it on (over) the instrument panel, etc. and you have an ecosystem that's beyond the reach of our less forum aware compatriots.

You could even install a printer like Peter says and print maps for them on site. The other Peter did that for me once on some innacessible piece of territory. (err.. copyright?) but still a good idea and maybe Jepp would allow it.

Then there's all the stuff you'd like to buy from Aircraft Spruce, but never do because of the ludicrous shipping shinannigins. The PA-28 charger plug, the windscreen cleaner, the towbar to replace that bent one, etc.. which you never actually get around to but would splash out if you saw it in a shop. Maybe you could be an Aircraft Spruce outlet working on consignment?

My friend in Arizona attracts personal visitors from all over the state because he's deeply knowlegeable on the products, has been a pilot owner himself and will regail you for hours with his marvellous stories. Contrast that with the limp youth you'll encounter in a UK pilot shop (if you can find one).

I know better than most about the terminal decline in independent retail. But every declining market has commercial opportunities if you are sufficiently determined, flexible and knowledgeable there is an opening to run a hobby business, if that's what you want to do and can afford to work for nothing. I'm not saying mortage your house to do this - I wouldn't - but there is an opportunity created by the white flags that other traders are flying over their former premises, eg Gloucester.

EGBW / KPRC, United Kingdom

AFAIK Jepp are dropping the printed charts, but they are not dropping the electronic versions of these which they sell on a CD as their Raster Charts product.

Unfortunately not true. The electronic raster charts get dropped as well, in line with the paper charts because they are actually the same. However, they only drop a country once they have coverage in the MobileFD VFR product.

What I really hate is that they don't have an Android version and don't plan to have one. This makes SkyDemon the best tool in my view.

Yes; the paper Jepps were nice. I used to fold them over as I flew, and threw it into a box on the back seat when finished with it.

But the whole world is moving inexorably towards a banal "I have a zero attention span, I have not done any planning, and I want it now at the touch of a button and I don't care what happens if the battery goes flat" model. Got any teenage kids?

We can't do anything about that, and neither can Jepp, so the name of the game is to work out a strategy for flying safely with it.

I bought an HP duplex colour laser (£450, crap, sold on Ebay for £20) and now use a Canon IP4950 duplex inkjet which is vastly better, and since the RSA key in its chipped cartridges escaped into the wild, the ink is very cheap and as good as the Canon one.

The best thing is to get an IR... the saving on VFR charts probably pays for the £150 annual revalidation.

I suspect the whole chart business will eventually drop out of the pilot shop domain, leaving the shops with ATPL study materials and uniforms which will probably be the same in 2100 as now

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Yeah, but...

The idea of pre printing Jepp charts on an A4 printer, putting up with the smudgy lines, taping them together - Aaargh!

An aspect of the Jepp charts that goes almost unnoticed except by those who've actually needed them is the way that they fold, just like US sectionals. Contrast this with the often apalling design of national charts, of which the UK laminated affair is by far the worst. Woe betide anyone who's forgotten to pre-fold his UK chart before departure! Loss of situational awareness due fixation on GPS has nothing on the chaos caused by trying to re-fold one of those beauties in flight!

My trips typically need 10 or more national charts, which is an entire flight bag full. Some, like Sweden, are quite handy but others are not. The same thing in Jepp is (was) just a fraction of that space and they can (could) easily be sorted and re-folded in flight.

EGBW / KPRC, United Kingdom

However, here in Europe VFR charts are a much bigger issue and the withdrawal of the Jeppesen GPS charts is a major issue for travellers like myself. Without Jeppesen we have to source ICAO national charts and this can be quite difficult.

AFAIK Jepp are dropping the printed charts, but they are not dropping the electronic versions of these which they sell on a CD as their Raster Charts product. They still sell this which costs something like €250 for Europe. They are dropping the coverage for the UK but I don't know of any UK pilots who ever used the Jepp charts, because the UK CAA ones are basically good. The RC CD can be loaded into Flitestar VFR Europe which costs about €100.

For pilots who like to fly with paper (which is myself too) the above is the way forward.

Also Jepp are doing a vector-based chart product for the Ipad, whose coverage is currently poor but they have plans to expand it to most of Europe; same as the Raster Charts.

I don't see Jepp getting out of the VFR chart business, because VFR PPL training and flying is carrying on all over Europe.

Whether this represents a business opportunity for a pilot shop is a different matter. It's one thing to say the €250 RC CD is good value relative to buying the whole stack of the printed charts, but probably in reality most pilots only bought 1 or 2 of the Jepp printed charts, for a specific trip. I recall, for my early long VFR trips like this one, buying maybe 2-3 of them for Spain and then the French SIA ones for France. For this trip which pushed VFR about as far as it can be easily pushed, I bought maybe half a dozen. And there is no way to automatically print off strip charts along the planned route, from Flitestar (in the way FS can do this for IFR). One can do it manually...

I have no idea if the Ipad product will print off strip charts, but I guess it will because I think (not sure) Skydemon can do that and SD must be eating a bit of Jepp's lunch. I suppose Ipad products are bad news for pilot shops because they bypass the pilot shops totally, and that will be true for both Jepp and SD.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

A friend of mine runs a pilot shop in the US. There's no doubt that trade has shrunk remorselessly. He recently told me that paper charts (once the backbone of his business) are 30% of what they once were due to Foreflight. His field is home to several flight schools and training is up so he now does a lot of business in test papers etc. but not enough to make up for the shrinking charts.

However, here in Europe VFR charts are a much bigger issue and the withdrawal of the Jeppesen GPS charts is a major issue for travellers like myself. Without Jeppesen we have to source ICAO national charts and this can be quite difficult. A lot of online pilot shops simply lie about availability and leave you in the lurch waiting and waiting...

Personally I'm a long way from relying on Skydemon (or any other electronic means) and want to carry a paper chart for every country I'm flying in. An improved, honest, service in that area would be welcome.

I hadn't read Peter Mundy's post when I wrote that and want to make it clear that I don't include him in that remark about the honesty of pilot shops! They know who they are!

EGBW / KPRC, United Kingdom

My advice is to not pick a declining industry to put your effort into.

KUZA, United States

OK, but isn't that just another way of saying that if you go to a shop which doesn't have a decent deep understanding of avionics and just follows the wiring diagrams in the back of the IMs (which is the vast majority of avionics installers; certainly in Europe) and finds the finished job doesn't work, it is better to be at a shop which charges a load more because they will be less reluctant to fix the issues at their expense. I can understand that, and a shop which made a few k on the supply of the kit alone will be happier to sort things out.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Living just off the hourly rate isn't exactly great. Also your customers will want fixed price quotes for work. This requires a larger shop and the margin on the hardware to work. I have tried several shops and I've learned that 10h * high rate and good result is cheaper than 50 * low rate and bad result.

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