Training Approaches in Approach Ban

He came very close to a defamation suit.

Surely, in the UK, you need to show that you suffered some economic or reputational damage to win that one. I got threatened a few times in the “private” pplir.org forum with a libel action, too….

Speaking of law: I came across one possible conflict here… So there are people (me included) who interpret the law in the way that an approach for training purposes is permitted in any condition as long as there is no intention to land. On the other hand the law, at least where I live, forbids to descend below 500ft AGL other than for the purpose of landing. From which I conclude that training approaches below minimum RVR – if permitted at all – automatically come with a 500ft minimum. Hardly worth doing then.

In my case, reputational damage is impossible.

However I believe some others would struggle also.

forbids to descend below 500ft AGL other than for the purpose of landing

…which of course is only for VFR…

what_next wrote:

From which I conclude that training approaches below minimum RVR – if permitted at all – automatically come with a 500ft minimum. Hardly worth doing then.

For a professional pilot like yourself flying approaches every day in all sorts of conditions maybe, but for the casual private IFR pilot I would argue even going around at 500ft is good training. Further down the ground is only closer, but from a procedural standpoint most of it is higher.

boscomantico wrote:

…which of course is only for VFR…

For IFR it would be higher by an order of magnitude – so even more restricting.

Arne wrote:

but for the casual private IFR pilot I would argue even going around at 500ft is good training.

If so, you could do it by the 100% legal way (in any interpretation) and go around at the outer marker (or equivalent) which is the limit of the “approach ban”.

@what_next, in Germany, flight instruction tends to have an exemption to descend below 500ft AGL VFR (or 1,000ft above the highest obstacle within 8km for IFR); typically that exemption is obtained by the flight school, and is limited to the state (Land) issuing the exemption.

So in theory, yes, in Germany it is illegal to practice an approach to a MDH/DH below 1,000ft IFR unless you are flying with an instructor flying for a school that has that exemption, or the instructor or yourself obtain such an exemption.

Cobalt wrote:

in Germany, flight instruction tends to have an exemption to descend below 500ft AGL VFR

Yes, but this only applies to practice forced landings while in the process of obtaining a license. So I can only do this with a PPL student. And I must document every such event. I can’t see how it would apply intrument approches below minimum RVR.

Arne wrote:

for the casual private IFR pilot I would argue even going around at 500ft is good training. Further down the ground is only closer, but from a procedural standpoint most of it is higher.

Practicing the going around – sure, but not for practicing keeping the needles in the middle down to 200ft. Once a pilot has mastered controlling and maintaining a descent rate and heading well enough, going down to 500 or even 400ft tends not to be a problem.