Hi there,
I’m new here on the forum and considering to go for a trip to Paris and London this summer from near Gothenburg, Sweden with a DA-20. I have only flown abroad once before and that was to Denmark, so I basically don’t have any experience. I have some questions, and I hope I can get some answers here.
Do I have to land at an airport that has customs when I first arrive in a country? I didn’t have to do that when I went to Denmark, maybe other countries are different.
Anyone who can recommend any stops on the way? I prefer smaller airports because I find people are usually more friendly and interested there. If anyone can recommend me some airports where it’s possible to stay the night (either in form of a club house, in a tent that I will bring, or some affordable accommodation nearby) it would be greatly appreciated, since I don’t mind that at all and I’m on a budget…
Any recommendations for which route to take that is more scenic? I want to appreciate the beauty of Europe from above. I saw something in a different thread that flying in the Netherlands is very beautiful…?
Also, which airports can you recommend in London and Paris given the above criteria? I suppose the most important things are low landing fees and parking fees. If there is also some affordable accommodation nearby, that is a big plus.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
London is in the UK which is non-Schengen, so for flying from/into UK the appropriate procedures must be observed at both sides. Check for “GAR” form as regards the UK side. As long as you remain in Schengen-land, immigration is not an issue. Do not confuse immigration and customs, see other threads round here.
Overnight camping at the airfield is rare but not impossible; some fields in Germany have specific accommodation, especially in Thuringia. Look for the smallest fields.
What country is beautiful to your eyes is up to yourself to discover, I am afraid. The Netherlands is as flat as could be, and most people prefer more spectacular terrain. Myself like the low mountains of Eifel-Ardennes very much – but then I haven’t seen very much as yet.
Finally, and unfortunately, I fear your destinations of London and Paris are not very compatible with low-cost travel… The bigger the city, the further the aerodromes will be away, and the more airspace will be reserved for airliners. Allow me to recommend for your first big trip you should select some smaller cities, these can be quite as beautiful and will offer much more hospitable aerodromes. Seeing that you start from Sweden, I think Germany can offer a long list of attractive destinations. If your budget is very tight, and languages do not daunt you, consider former socialist countries like Poland or Czechia, or even your nearby Balticum. To name just two places I have visited: Klaipeda and Kaunas are interesting cities to visit, both with a nice and friendly airfield.
Hope this helps,
You can fly into any UK airport. You just need to send in the GAR form, usually 4 hours before arrival. The UK is unusual in that you don’t need to fly to/from an airport which has “Customs” or is a “Port of Entry”.
If you want to visit London then perhaps the best airports would be Biggin EGKB or Southend EGMC, with EGMC having much better transport links into London. Maybe Redhill EGKR is close to a railway station too.
Like London, Paris doesn’t have any airports that are particularly close to the city and GA-priced. Pontoise LFPT (accessible only within the Schengen area today, so no good for a flight from/to the UK) is one option. Toussus (also Schengen only) is another.
The most popular VFR route into the UK from that direction is along the Belgium coast and KOK-KONAN-DVR. Midden-Zeeland makes a nice stop on that route. Alternatively Texel to the East Anglia coast has freer airspace but a longer water crossing and Texel is a very nice field to stop. Other possible stops worth considering are Wangerooge or Helgoland for low taxes but short runways. I’m sure there are lots of other good possibilities, but those are based on my limited experience.
If central London is your aim, it’s better to land at a field with good transport connections rather than aim to get as close as possible. Southend, Biggin, Stapleford or even Headcorn would work.
For Paris, I like small fields like Chavenay-Villepreux. It’s about 1.5km from the railway station and a short ride to Versailles and onward into Paris. I’ve also used Toussus-le-Noble, but that was some time ago and much has changed there I believe.
As long as you stay within Schengen (outside the UK), there is no need for customs or immigration. Only thing you need is to file a flight plan 1 hour prior to the ETA of border crossing.
I love Bornholm – so I would definitely stop there. I do not suggest Læsø since that would be a 30 minutes flight from you origin… If you fly through Jylland, Billund, Groningen (NL) used to be very popular. In the Brussels area, Grimbergen.
I have flown little in Germany but I have been to Paderborn which is kind of a bigger field, but very friendly (at least it used to be), with a restaurant full of para jumpers. I’ve heard good things about Marburg. You may want to stop in the Berlin area. I hear Schönefeld is good to GA.
If you continue on a straight line from Paderborn to Paris you may stop at Reims Prunay. Small field with concrete runway, a restaurant and hotel on the field. Home to Reims Aviation. Quite a bit of activity on a nice weekend. Aeroclub, aerobatics… Around Paris there are quite a few fields, small and bigger.
Grass: Les Mureaux (not impossible you may be allowed to set up a tent there – contact AC Roger Janin), Chavenay, St Cyr-Ecole
Concrete: Lognes, Pontoise (almost exclusively light aircraft traffic doing T&Gs, towered, at least 3 aeroclub south of the tower, including one very big one – Hispano-Souiza), Toussus-Le-Noble (I recommend against the latter)
When you leave for the UK you will need to do so from a port of entry (you are leaving Schengen). Dinard (view of Mont St Michel), Caen, Cherbourg are 3 airports that meet that criteria. Otherwise, Deauville, Rouen and Le Touquet. Le Touquet is kind of a GA Mecca in France which gets very busy during the weekends, where you can rent a bike to get into town or enjoy a very nice meal in the restaurant. It is a major point of transit for traffic to/from the UK.
Concerning the London area I have been to Stapleford which I can recommend if you like grass. Short taxi ride to the tube. Beware of the traffic.
That said, if what you want to enjoy Europe from the sky, why on earth do you want to come to Paris? The airspace around here is a nightmare, everything is flat, if you see Paris it will be from a great distance… You should rather go to Normandy, see the invasion beaches, the hilly landscape. To the Brittany coast – for example Quiberon. Further south in Central France it gets a lot more scenic. Cosne-sur-Loire is a great field. Granted, it is in the middle of nowhere, but what nowhere! Vichy. The volcanoes in Auvergne. Bordeaux, La Rochelle, L’Ile d’Yeu. On your way to England, the Channel Islands, particularly Guernsey and Alderney unless you are a nostalgic of Bergerac and want to visit Jersey.
Although I find the surroundings of London nicer than those of Paris, also in England there are tons of other places that would be great to visit with a DA20. You can see Paris or London flying EZ Jet or Ryan Air any time.
If you want to seize the opportunity to see Stonehenge while in the UK, I recommend Old Sarum. Great field with lots of activity, para jumping, aerobatics, restaurant full of aviation enthusiasts
Wow, thank you all so much for your amazing insights! It’s very helpful!
One thing that many of you say and that really makes sense now that you mention it, is that flying to Paris and London perhaps isn’t the best idea because of my goal to try to keep the cost down.
The idea of flying to smaller airfields in France, England and Germany does sound very tempting, and it’s definitely on the list of possibilities now. Thank you all again for all the suggested fields. Another thing I’m considering is going east as suggested by Jan Olieslagers here above. I will think about it, and I will talk to my girlfriend and see what she thinks.
One thing that I came to think about now – where can I find maps and aerodrome charts for flying to all these places? Does everybody use iPad apps nowadays? I looked at the place where I normally buy pilot supplies here in Sweden, but they only sell maps for the Nordic countries and Germany. Jeppesen also said that they no longer produce maps and charts for VFR and referred me to their iPad app. Problem is that I don’t have an iPad…
Well, I don’t have an Ipad either, and use only paper charts as of now (I always try to resist “must-haves” and trendy hypes for as long as possible…) but it isn’t always easy. The good thing is, a fair deal of info is available on the www, for free. Less good things: one has to find it all, and one is never sure the data are up to date. Then again, I’ve always wondered what guarantees one has from commercial offerers like Garmin, Jeppesen,… : if I bust some airspace because their charts display it incorrectly or not at all, will they pay the bill? I have my doubts there.
Whatever your source of information, always have it confirmed by direct contact with the aerodrome, your destination as well as your alternate(s). There may be some linguistical challenges, though, especially as some places will not answer to written messages in foreign language (Latin countries are like that, generally).
Some possible www sources for aerodrome charts:
Belgium: www.fed-ulm.be and search for ULIP – mind you, the list is NOT complete but what info there is is fairly up to date
France: www.navigeo.org very good
Germany: www.airports.de has a bad reputation for not being up to date, but offers a good beginning
Italy: www.avioportolano.it only in Italian
Portugal: http://roteiro.apau.org/zmapa.html
Daniel, I am also a little bummed out by Jeppesen stopping the VFR+GPS series for exactly that reason. You can however still get the 2013 edition of the charts and I believe Jeppesen has published a list of changes.
Getting the VACs online is generally not a problem.
France: http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/ → AIP Cartes
Having an EFB (a tablet app with en-route and VACs) certainly is a good idea in case you need to divert to an airfield for which you do not have a paper chart.
Regarding the VFR en-route charts (sectionals, 1:500.000), I think nothing replaces the paper charts. You can order the French charts from http://www.boutique.aero/ or http://www.boutique-du-pilote.com/. Not sure whether any of them provides an English interface. In addition to the 1:500.000 you may want to get 1:250.000 scale charts for some of the more complex areas like the Paris area, the Rhone valley… and a guide containing the list of restricted/prohibited/danger areas (“complément aux cartes” which you find in “pochette VFR” but requires you understand a minimum French). France is littered with restricted areas, mostly military flying areas, so it is vital to know the restrictions and hours of operations.
Jeppesen publishes trip kits (paper or electronic) which are kind of expensive, but they would include VACs and parts of AIP including R/P/D areas.
I know people who use Air Navigation Professional (on iOS). You can make in-application purchases of additional charts.
A good source for free UK online charts:
www.skydemonlight.com
It also shows notams.
If you want paper UK VFR airfield landing charts you can look at ‘Pooleys VFR Flight Guide’ around £30
for paper UK charts you can also get the CAA ICAO 1:500 000 UK charts, these are about £15 each. 3 charts cover the entire of the UK, but you’ll likely only need just one.
You can also buy the digital versions of the above and put them on a memory map on your ipad/andriod
If you want a free paper airfield landing charts (only licensed ones) which you can print, you can always use the AIP:
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=6&Itemid=13.html
If you want free digital uk charts in an app (ipad/andriod), you can download uk airspace avoid:
http://www.pocketfms.com/airspaceavoid/
The free app is not that great to be honest, but it free and it keeps you from busting airspaces.
Dutch airfield information can be found over here at AIS Netherlands:
Dutch Notams are easily checked at this site:
Any recommendations for which route to take that is more scenic? I want to appreciate the beauty of Europe from above. I saw something in a different thread that flying in the Netherlands is very beautiful…?
Most of Holland may be fairly flat but I’d say the scenery is not bad to look at all. Here are a couple of pictures I took near Texel (EHTX) . Texel is a nice island to plan a stop. Lelystad (EHLE) is fine too.
@Peter: How about adding a new section at the top next to IT/Website that only contains up to date links to AIS info sites, etc.? That would be an easy way to find erverything you need for a trip. The Notam sites for each country could be added as well.
