Airborne_Again wrote:
As a Swedish tax payer, I’m very happy for German GA pilots to access Swedish aeronautical information for free and I would hope that feeling is reciprocated.
As a German pilot (and taxpayer) I’m quite fine with paying for this service. Hikers have to pay for hiking maps, Mountainbikers have to pay for Mountainbike maps – why should pilots have the right to get their maps for free.
I don’t believe it is the job of a government to provide me with information and services I need for my enjoyment for free and use tax money for it (perhaps one of the few points Silvair would agree with me ;-)).
Malibuflyer wrote:
As a German pilot (and taxpayer) I’m quite fine with paying for this service. Hikers have to pay for hiking maps, Mountainbikers have to pay for Mountainbike maps – why should pilots have the right to get their maps for free.
There is a key difference. Hikers don’t have to pay to know where they can walk and where they can’t. This is written on signs one can read for free. Mountainbikers don’t have to pay to know where they can ride and where they can’t, with what kind of bikes. This is written on signs, and laws, one can read for free.
Whereas the AIP VFR contains legally mandatory circuits, airport closing times, etc.
And incidentally, some (most?) countries have a government-run “geo website” where one see maps of the country for free. I know of the one of France and Luxembourg out of the top of my head. The French one even contains the VFR enroute maps.
Indeed; access to the law should be free to all.
This isn’t access to information on flying. Anybody with a PPL can fly to a runway and land on it.
Peter wrote:
Indeed; access to the law should be free to all.
The keyword is should. :)
I am a person that pretty much shouts that access to any laws and regulations should be free.
But! For example, access to the text of CS-23 is not, as well as lot of other safety-related aviation standards and regulations.
It would be great to attach the VAC-charts to the EuroGA airport database . Someone will own the AIP and make it available.
Malibuflyer wrote:
why should pilots have the right to get their maps for free
AIP is more like road signs. You don’t pay to look at road signs. Well, actually you do some way or the other, but not in a way that restricts you from looking at them when needed. The important thing is availability. Things like this should be as available as possible, and payment should be made “invisible”. Using taxes is not the only way to do this.
In Norway, no taxpayers pay for information on IPPC. This is managed by AVINOR. AVINOR is a state owned company, but fully self financed. Avinor gets it’s money mostly from owning and operating airports, and through take off fees and en-route fees. For each individual pilot, information is free.
Now, owning and operating airports suddenly changed in the spring time from very lucrative to huge losses 
How Avinor copes with this will be interesting to see. I would think keeping IPPC running is peanuts in this respect though. Airports must be scaled based on the traffic, both increasing and shrinking.
lionel wrote:
There is a key difference. Hikers don’t have to pay to know where they can walk and where they can’t. This is written on signs one can read for free. Mountainbikers don’t have to pay to know where they can ride and where they can’t, with what kind of bikes.
Sorry, but that is pure theory: In practice no serious hiker or biker would argue “I don’t need a map because there are signs”. That is like a pilot saying “I don’t need a map because I can ask for vectors” (or a QDR for the older ones here…).
If it’s about hiking or biking (and not just taking a walk) you would never risk to walk into a valley that does not have an exit on the other side and have to walk 6 hrs back instead…
Peter wrote:
Indeed; access to the law should be free to all.
Fully agree: Access should be free. But it has even been clarified by German “Supreme Court” that “Access” does not imply a free personal copy of every regulation. Access to AIP is guaranteed and free in (almost) every airfield in Germany. In addition AIS will give you access as well. It’s like with industry norms (very same situation btw.) where “free access” also doesn’t guarantee a free personal copy but it is enough to have them at certain public libraries.
arj1 wrote:
I am a person that pretty much shouts that access to any laws and regulations should be free.
But! For example, access to the text of CS-23 is not
Hu? Is that not
lionel wrote:
Hu? Is that nothttps://www.easa.europa.eu/document-library/easy-access-rules/easy-access-rules-normal-category-aeroplanes-cs-23 for everything in a nice package
But then every AMC refer to the ASTM standard which is not free.
Compared with CS-25 or CS-22 which is really free
I have to say that I also have an issue with being charged for access to information on airfield data.
What percentage of german pilots pay for access?
What percentage of foriegn pilots fly to germany and pay for access?
So whos going to be first to admit they have flown in Germany without the official plates? 
