I agree with some of above, but let me make the following points (probably some again)
) The exception might be if you are declaring something big for which Customs are needed, but almost nobody in GA is doing that
Switzerland, sure; they do travel and travel a lot all over the place.Anyway, it’s a good outcome. I wonder who phoned up the DGAC? Was it @gallois?? Or was it @nestor?
Did LFAT only start having permanent police when M. Macron became president?
I remind you that La Rochelle has neither permanent police or permanent customs.
They do have AFAIK permanent security nowadays.
The border police attend more often than customs as they will check passports,identity cards and where necessary visas, on all incoming and outgoing flights to all extra Schengen including those within the EU. Customs are only necessary to meet flights from third countries or on request from countries outside the EU but within Schengen. Scheduled flights and commercial flights are covered in Gen 1 of the AIP and Enr 1. Commercial flights have to PN but often it is the same people either handlers or the same businesses and the border forces tend to have a rapport based on trust.
An example of this was a regular flight from LFBN to Gloucester carrying eels or elves.They had an agreement with Bordeaux bse but a) that was when the UK were still in the customs union and so customs were not really interested and AIUI the police had seen the same passport/s so many times that they didn’t always turn up to check them. That attitude may well have changed.
In the summer months (May to October) the number of passenger carrying aircraft travelling between UK and LFBH per week increases from AIUI 2 aircraft per week to around 24. Therefore just to service these aircraft alone means that during these months both police and customs will be in attendance more often.
This has an effect on the number of officers available to deal with the very few UK GA aircraft that turn up during the course of the week.
The problem is that this influx correponds to the decrease in officers available due to annual holidays. It is well known that the whole of France goes on holiday in July and August.
No amount of complaints from GA pilots from the UK or extra Schengen is going to change French culture.
Did LFAT only start having permanent police when M. Macron became president?
When he bought a house there.
The only other explanation is that LFAT has excellent political connections. Well, the city mayor owns (?) the airport… reportedly.
and the border forces tend to have a rapport based on trust.
A nice bit of non-transparency
In the summer months (May to October) the number of passenger carrying aircraft travelling between UK and LFBH per week increases from AIUI 2 aircraft per week to around 24.
That is presumably GA, including bizjets?
What I don’t get – this is another bit of non-transparency, evidenced by LFLP – is that “crew” is treated differently, with e.g. no passport stamp, but crew still needs to sit around “for ever” until the police turn up. In the GA context there is no basis for treating crew any differently. If there was, then any PN would not be needed for solo flights, which is self evidently not the case anywhere (officially).
It is de facto the case for airliner crew, in a lot of places.
The problem is that this influx correponds to the decrease in officers available due to annual holidays. It is well known that the whole of France goes on holiday in July and August.
That does not correlate with the time the 48hr PN has been in operation – basically almost the whole year.
No amount of complaints from GA pilots from the UK or extra Schengen is going to change French culture.
Of course, and nobody is seeking that.
What I am banging on about is the lack of transparency; also here.
But now you have dug yourself a hole, basically confirming everything I’ve been getting at
Soon, someone will say that there was never any connection between Dassault and the Élysée Palace
But, seriously, this stuff benefits exactly nobody. And it deprives LFBH of a lot of €€€.
I tend not to conspiracy theories I prefer to look at the facts even if you think I am digging a hole but Le Touquet has been popular with celebrities going back many many years. Winston Churchill holidayed there..
M.Macron has been president for less than 10 years so for your theory to stand up LFAT jas only had 24hr poilce and customs since the earliest 2013 and in fact they didn’t have joint ownership of the house unitl 2016.
Any airport that any minister of state arrives at is signalled in advance and a whole hoard of gendarmes and police turn up and whisk them away with the whole operation taking less than 1/4 hr. I really don’t see how your theory stands up.
IMO and it is only an opinion that LFAT has a full time police and customs presence is quite simply because they get a lot of GA from the UK
Nothing to do with M.Macron at all.
ICAO has guidelines of how crew should be treated. re passports and customs. I believe CAT crew pass through both police and customs.if they are staying overnight.
I think there’s something in the annexes or somewhere that says that such crew are expected to stay in the Port of Entry.
EASA and therefore France follow those guidelines. What is not transparent?
When a CAT scheduled aircraft arrives it has usually been in a timetable with police and customs for many more than 48hrs in advance.
So what’s not transparent about that?
If you keep looking for conspiracies, I am sure you will find them. It’s easier just to enjoy flying and if some things cause you so much angst, avoid them.
Conspiracy, where?
As usual, I am posting stuff previously posted by French pilots, which is OK
Peter wrote:
Practically nobody (in light GA) is going to be travelling to LFBH from Norway, so analysis is of no value to Norwegian pilots Switzerland, sure; they do travel and travel a lot all over the place.
The exact same regulations apply to Norway vs EU as Switzerland vs EU. What makes it “work” here is Sweden. Just file a FP and off you go to wherever you like (it’s almost as easy flying back). Once in Sweden, you are already inside EU the moment you land for fuel and bladder release. But try flying directly from Norway to an arbitrary (non international) airport in Finland. You can be met with not just 48h PN, but 2 weeks PN!
Peter wrote:
Anyway, it’s a good outcome
How so? Taking EU regulations 2020/877 into consideration, this is a step back. It means that customs are not available at all for intra Schengen flight. I can’t imagine that it was used much anyway, 24h PN and all, but it is a definite de-rating of the airport status for international use. For non-Schengen flights there’s no difference at all.
[ personal attack deleted; normally the whole post is deleted ]
@LeSving I don’t understand why you say 2020/877 is a step backwards. Surely if you come from a Schengen country and you want customs to check you out and you don’t want to PN for some reason or another, you can enter the EU at any International airport which does not require PN. Also I believe you can contact customs and tell them what you want to declare and they will sort things out without necessarily checking the goods.
There aren’t many countries in the world where customs checks every passengers baggage or every piece of cargo or parcel (except maybe with sniffer dogs for drugs,tobacco or currency)
They rely on intelligence across the customs community and the customs officers sense of when something is not right.
For the travelling public its the element of not knowing whether or not you are going to be pulled aside that keeps the majority,honest.
In the summer months (May to October) the number of passenger carrying aircraft travelling between UK and LFBH per week increases from AIUI 2 aircraft per week to around 24.
That is presumably GA, including bizjets?
No, that’s Commercial Air Traffic. Less than a half dozen internal flights a week in winter, increasing with UK flights from March to November, then peaking at 25+ a week in July/August.
Plus :
They still allow GA entry/exit via the coded gate, and just 15-17Euro for the day to visit. <20 Euro for a taxi or <2Euro for the bus right outside to the city center every 20-30mins.
Quite frankly La Rochelle is a lovely town to visit and is about a GA friendly as you can get.
Regards, SD..
I don’t understand why you say 2020/877 is a step backwards
I didn’t. What I meant was that when taking 2020/877 into account as the default (which is the only thing to do, it’s law after all) then La Rochelle no longer has the possibility to do customs for inter Schengen flights for those who need it, according to that NOTAM. It did before.
I’m not sure that is the case. If coming from.Schengen and you need customs just contact the douanier either on the address given under douanier in the GEN1 section of the AIP or the bse.email address or telephone number given in the LFBH VAC.
My understanding is the FPL acts as a declaration of nothing to declare but I am still trying to get some simple statement from the DGAC that this understanding is the correct one.
