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Twin Rating - minimum "maintenance" required

NCYankee,

In my post #15, I didn't disagree with comments made by you in the post #14, but I was simply following on the Peter's question (#11) and my response to that question (#13).

Cheers, ANTEK

YSCB

Palma as in Majorca?

One airport with avgas and no Customs. One airport with Customs and no avgas

I've flown a few times in the DA42 and do like it. It flies very similarly to the TB20 but has a spare engine. It's also quieter. Less good in turbulence though.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This was superficially attractive because if I ever buy a twin it will be the DA42.

Peter, in the event another one of your southern trips is in the direction of Spain, please drop by in Palma and I gladly will take you flying in the DA42 and you can experience its pro's and con's first hand (if you have not yet already done so).

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

they won't do the IR in a SEP due to the high MSA in the vicinity

IMHO that is just revenue maximisation.

All over the USA they do IRs in SEs. I suppose it works over there because the USA is completely flat

It's like the majority of UK FTOs will not touch a customer with his own aircraft.

They just want to run the standard ATPL sausage machine.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

One small point to add to this discussion, the FAA Chief Counsel has an opinion stating that passing a Flight Instructor practical test does not count as meeting the 61.56 Flight Review requirements. IMHO it should, but doesn't.

KUZA, United States

Antek,

I said:

With respect to the ME add on rating, you should be able to do it all in one check ride for the Commercial Pilot - Multi-engine added rating. You would need to complete the instrument tasks on the check-ride that are required for instrument in a multiengine, but not for a single engine.

You commented:

The above does not apply during the instrument portions of the two separate FAA ATP (SEL) and ATP (MEL) check-rides. All test sequences have to be flown during both flight tests

I don't disagree with your comment, but I was specifically referring to the "ME add on rating" as Peter has a FAA Commercial Pilot ASEL with instrument airplane, but I didn't quote the FAR section 61.63 which reads "Additional aircraft ratings (other than for ratings at the airline transport pilot certification level."

KUZA, United States

I saw £450/hr for an old piston twin 2 years ago. Seminole, or a Seneca perhaps?

£420 / £370 with / without instructor for a Seneca a few miles Southwest of me... De-iced but pretty basic avionics incl GNS430....I asked if it was WAAS enabled and they looked at me blankly....not needed for IR training anyway...

I had gone there coincidentally on their open -day to enquire about doing an EASA IR....they won't do the IR in a SEP due to the high MSA in the vicinity....hence looking at doing it in the Seneca....then I found out that while the exams for the ATPL are done monthly in Glasgow, the CPL and IR exams are only held at Gatwick at a lesser frequency (they weren't sure what frequency as everyone does the ATPL apparently)....also I thought at some future point I may want an instructor rating, for which a CPL is a prerequisite. So I went there to see what it would take to get a simple SEPIR vs going the FAA route and left with effectively considering a frozen ATPL and a MEP IR!....

Having said that if I wanted to be an airline pilot (way too old for that now), they seemed pretty good....and they have an arrangement with CATS for the ground theory including plans to do the residential bit locally....

YPJT, United Arab Emirates

Peter said:

I am sure you are right Antek but ....

Well, Peter and JayBee, I was NOT right!

Below is the list of flight tests/checks that absolve one from taking a separate Biennial Flight Review:

  • • FAR Section 61.58 pilot proficiency check
  • • FAR Part 121 pilot proficiency check
  • • FAR Part 135 pilot proficiency check
  • • FAR Part 141 chief pilot proficiency check
  • • Military pilot proficiency check
  • • Other proficiency checks administered by the FAA
  • • Pilot examiner annual flight check
  • • Flight test for any certificate or rating
  • • Operations specifically authorized by the FAA
  • • Satisfactory completion of any phase of the FAA “Wings” program

Thus, your initial IR test flight was rightly considered as a substitute for a BFR. Interestingly, any future "standard" IPCs (if you let your instrument currency lapse) won't give you an automatic 24 months of exemption from undergoing a separate BFR.

P.S. In Australia, passing the required annual CIR flight test satisfies the requirement for a BFR. Is the same true under UK CAA and/or EASA regulations?

A BFR can indeed be accomplished in conjunction with some other type-rating/proficiency check-ride but BFR-specific items have to be included in such "combined" test

I am sure you are right Antek but the reality of the way it is done in the USA is that any DPE checkride gives you a BFR. The DPE who did my IR told me specifically that, for example. Same for the CPL checkride.

The flight review may be taken in any aircraft that you are rated for and it applies to all others, so it can be accomplished in a single engine or multi engine

Now that is really interesting! It sounds like you can keep an FAA ME PPL/IR or CPL/IR going without having to rent a twin.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

JayBee said (in relation to FAA regulations):

Any checkride counts as a BFR, so when you, for example, add your seaplane rating you are covered for 24 months on all your ratings.

I am afraid that is not correct. A Biennial Flight Review has quite specific aims and objectives both for its "ground" and "flying" part. A BFR can indeed be accomplished in conjunction with some other type-rating/proficiency check-ride but BFR-specific items have to be included in such "combined" test.

YSCB
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