I cant really see ATC not giving someone a good service or downgrading them because of a call sign. I use Farnborough on almost all flights I do, and when you hear of the appaling R/T, pilots for some reason going off frequency without requesting a frequency change, and sometimes 2 minute waits to get a word in edgeways – I would give them medals for having more patience than a proverbial Saint.
But I do find the point about ATC downgrading a service to limited radar coverage either due to a) the controller not seeing the reported aircraft from the pilot and thinking his radar isnt feed working particuarly well b) downgrading on the thought ‘well your radar is obviously better than ours’. Either in a general situation might well be true, and while it’s not official ATC lingo to give this information out on air and acknowledging any ‘isssues’, you wonder if the response is just to downgrade and thats it. You would expect a reason but I guess they dont have to give it.
Before they downgraded you, did they make any useful traffic calls?
They passed me traffic before the downgrade and (on the outbound flight) after the downgrade.
I didn’t get any after the downgrade on the return flight, but one rarely gets traffic info on a Basic service.
As to why you have been “dropped”…just an idea: maybe they recognised the callsign? Now this is not intended to tease you, but a serious thought. Years ago, the editor-in-chief of a german pilot magazine (which, at the time, was known for its “distinct” writing) frequently got some “special treatment” by german ATC…
It’s possible but would be very surprising. I do know a lot of UK ATC read my website (many they have told me so and even sometimes on the air) and probably a lot of them read EuroGA, but I don’t slag off UK ATC anywhere. I think I always comment on them positively. There are 1 or 2 mods on other pilot sites who are ATCOs and who probably don’t like me but I happen to know where they work. Also they can’t be sure it is me in the plane. Anyway I think they are too professional to do stunts like that. Tower controllers have much more leeway for that kind of stuff and there is a widely known story about a woman ATCO who after getting her advances rejected by some pilots going into “her” airport started to put them into the hold when inbound. I have heard tower controllers (ATCOs) making various comments to various “known suspect” locals along the lines of “we know what you are about to do so please don’t do it again”.
What’s even more probable though, is that their policy is that when an aircraft calls out a Mode-C transmitting traffic which they were not able to see, they have to desume that their radar is not able to pick up traffic reliably in that area (at that altitude) and that therefore they have to make you aware
That is my take on it, but it’s interesting all the same. If Farnborough really didn’t see that plane, they need to get some new kit. I hope the USSR isn’t reading this, because the invasion route would be pretty obvious (MID WOD WCO and you are in Central London).
As to why you have been “dropped”…just an idea: maybe they recognised the callsign?
Now this is not intended to tease you, but a serious thought. Years ago, the editor-in-chief of a german pilot magazine (which, at the time, was known for its “distinct” writing) frequently got some “special treatment” by german ATC…
So maybe when you called in they thought, “oh well…” but when you started calling out traffic to them, it came across as “lecturing” and they thought “OK, fine, do your own thing then”. More probably though, it could be that they do indeed have a policy to the effect that once a TS aircraft declares to be TCAS equipped, and their workload is high_, they will focus on other participating traffic. Actually makes sense to me as long as they are running at the limits of their capacity. What’s even more probable though, is that their policy is that when an aircraft calls out a Mode-C transmitting traffic which they were not able to see, they have to desume that their radar is not able to pick up traffic reliably in that area (at that altitude) and that therefore they have to make you aware. After all, they didn’t really drop you; a limited TS is still a TS, but a more limited one than a “normal” TS.
Before they downgraded you, did they make any useful traffic calls?
Brize East Midlands and Farnborough have reported primary only contacts to me several times.
Looks consistent with the ATC unit having a secondary radar only, no primary.
My understanding is that UK ATC is not allowed to offer a “Traffic Service” (with no restrictions stated), that involves a target which they are not talking to, unless they have both primary and secondary contact.
My guess is that his transponder was weak, because normally one sees traffic on TCAS from several miles away.
The controller said he had absolutely nothing on radar on that track, apart from me.
Looks consistent with the ATC unit having a secondary radar only, no primary. I wonder if there’s any official information as to which LARS zones have primary radar coverage and which have secondary only.
I would think that filing an airprox today would be like reporting getting one’s pocket picked at Barcelona.
There cannot be a rule that a traffic service is downgraded if you see something they don’t.
I agree – it would be amazingly cynical. But to get it twice on the same day?
I have found when it is very busy that a traffic service becomes so busy it can almost be useless. A couple of weeks ago from Brize I had non stop contacts being reported and that was with a reduced traffic service due reception to the north west. As soon as I said copied traffic (or have him on TCAS) he would start rattling off more multiple targets, no height information etc.
I still always take it when I can. Never had to report traffic they didn’t call so no idea what happens if you do. Seems very odd, did you file the airprox? There cannot be a rule that a traffic service is downgraded if you see something they don’t.
Peter thanks for clarification, I have always perceived a greater duty of care when I fly a flight plan… maybe I’ve been deluded and blissfully ignorant… frankw
My novice experience suggests ‘traffic service’ is rarely provided with any reliabiity in the UK – they drop you asap by calling ‘limited service’ or ‘basic service’.
Correct.
I suspect the only time you have reliable traffic service is when you are radar controlled in ATC or file a flight plan
Actually, no…
In CAS, i.e. Class A-E, ATC are supposed to separate IFR-on-IFR. If you are getting a “radar control service” you could be VFR, and AFAIK there is no separation in Class D between VFR and IFR (not for the benefit of the VFR traffic, I mean). A flight plan is irrelevant.
In Class G, no separation is provided between any traffic.
But they can’t separate what they can’t see. They only thing working in your favour, when in CAS, is that anybody “unknown” in there is busting CAS, which people aren’t supposed to be doing, so it is a reasonable assumption that not as many will be doing it 
But it is still a numbers game. Thus far, in the UK, a GA aircraft has not hit an airliner, so the “numbers game” has worked out OK.
However none of this is the Q I was asking.
