It’s the first I’ve heard of it happening in the US. When I lived there we used to call it $ignature (wherever they were the only FBO on the field, they would charge stupid fees for everything).
Peter wrote:
This could never happen in Europe
The EU does have some provisions to protect customers in this situation, but they are weak. One is the right to self-handling, but there is no effective way of enforcing it.
There must be more to this than meets the eye. According to Airnav, Signature’s 100LL fuel price is $5.74, high but not unusual for a major airport and nothing like the $8.40 that they charge at Las Vegas McCarran where there’s no FBO competition and the alternate fields are hugely inconvenient.
Some of the user comments, both for Signature and Atlantic, make interesting reading!
I’d trade any of these FBO’s for the deep-rooted, indifferent and cynical exploitation that we have to grin and bear in Europe of course!
Aveling wrote:
nothing like the $8.40 that they charge at Las Vegas McCarran where there’s no FBO competition and the alternate fields are hugely inconvenient.
I remember I went there with my wife in 2002 and was shocked 1) by the fuel prices, 2) by the fact that they did not waive handling/taxes when buying fuel. I had previously been to North Las Vegas (without my wife) and did not want to do that again because I remembered how long we had been waiting for a taxi out in the heat, and the long ride into town. But when I got the bill, I did kind of regret. Had I gone to North Las Vegas, though, my wife would probably have complained about what a cheapskate I was. Still dunno what’s worse.
Airborne_Again wrote:
One is the right to self-handling, but there is no effective way of enforcing it.
I am not sure that we do. I have looked into this from a lobbying perspective, for AOPA and PPL/IR Europe, and I think that the conclusion that we have no such rights.
Airlines do, but not us.
I have actually found Signature to be one of the more reasonable FBO’S, that I have used. When required to use an FBO that is. On the self handling question, unless the airport has a flying club, and you make a pre arrangement with said club, then if arriving at a larger airport, you are sent to the FBO. At that point, you are in their hands unfortunately. As with everything pre check thoroughly, and arrive fully prepared. All of the above MY experience, others may well have a totally different experience.
Went there a couple of times and they highway robbed me, even though I was only staying for 30 mins to go pick something up. Extortionate fuel price and extortionate ramp fee. But I’ve never had good experience with Signature. They take you to the cleaners at Santa Barbara as well. At least Atlantic I’ve had better experiences with.
But it’s just bizarre in general that there in this day and age is no requirement to publish any charges, or hidden fee’s. It’s a total honeytrap – you land and you might have to pay anything between $10 to $1000. It’s like the wild west with FBO’s. I’ve heard AOPA is actively trying to make legislature that will have them at least publish their costs beforehand somewhere, but don’t know where it is in the process.
The problem at this particular airport in Orange County is that there aren’t any other local airports to offer competition. The County is responsible for that situation having famously pushed other local airports out of existence, but it appears that they at least take some responsibility for managing the one they have left in the area.
I am not sure that we do. I have looked into this from a lobbying perspective, for AOPA and PPL/IR Europe, and I think that the conclusion that we have no such rights. Airlines do, but not us.
My reading into it was somewhat different. It’s how a ‘user’ is defined in the UK’s interpretation of existing European legislation. I understood a ‘user’ to apply on ALL flights (i.e. GA+CAT) that carried passengers. So a GA flight that carries passengers has the right to self-handle. Also the right to self-handling applies to airports meeting a certain criteria in terms of passengers every year.
I’m told there will be a CAA consultation released later in the year to refine what a ‘user’ is and how the CAA plans to enforce this area of the law, which hasn’t really been looked at since 1997.
More reading here: https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Airports/Economic-regulation/Competition-policy/Airports-Groundhandling-Regulations-1997/
