RobertL18C wrote:
In the event you wanted to join airways and file a pop up IFR flight plan, I suspect this can be negotiated with London or Scottish Info while remaining OCAS.
Yes – I don’t doubt that’s possible – London/Scottish info are always very helpful and will try to get you whatever you ask for – that’s kind of what they are for. How long it’ll take them to sort it out with London Control is anyone’s guess.
What’ll never work is just freecalling one of the London Control frequencies and asking to enter the Class A, or asking an adjoining airspace owner (e.g. Farnborough) to sort that out for you.
RobertL18C wrote:
In the event you wanted to join airways and file a pop up IFR flight plan, I suspect this can be negotiated with London or Scottish Info while remaining OCAS.
I think what Peter meant was that in the UK it is not possible to file a flight plan for Class A crossing while in the air (with VERY few exceptions, where the control of said Class A was delegated to someone else), it might work with Scottish, but in England it is not great. I haven’t heard of any case in the UK where people were able to join airways without filing a fligh plan while on the ground.
It would be interesting what happens in other countries. I’ve got from the other above:
Swiden – Yes
Norway – Yes
France – Yes
Unsure about:
Austria @Snoopy and Germany @boscomantico, @sebastian_g
Somehow I’m not optimistic about Spain & Italy.
Not likely one answer that works across the multitude of country jurisdictions. Cross-border … not likely.
May depend on the situation. Trying to file a pop-up cross-country IFR clearance might work depending on the country. In France, a pop-up clearance request for approach to a controlled airfield probably works for anything less than the major airports. I’ve seen it done for Ajaccio when a VFR flight encountered deteriorating wx.
I suspect any experience in this group is heavily country-based. How often is it really tried/done though?
About the UK class A, I had few cases where I filed IFR from north (EGBN, EGNJ) back to Fairoaks shortly before takeoff (>30min). One case, takeoff case was just 31min after the ACK message.
Each time when I called for join, they told me « Unable, we don’t find your flight plan, remain OCAS », but then upon insisting they say something along the line, let us check if london will take you. And each time after a few minutes they came back with « climb, cleared to enter control airpace, contact london on xxx»
Don’t know if they just eventually got the flight plan or if it was a pop up, but each case was class a airways into the london area (CPT arrival)
roznet wrote:
About the UK class A, I had few cases where I filed IFR from north (EGBN, EGNJ) back to Fairoaks shortly before takeoff (>30min). One case, takeoff case was just 31min after the ACK message.
roznet, that is the point – if you submit it on the ground, it might work, if you submit it in the air, then in the UK it won’t.
My only point is that there are some cases where it felt I wasn’t in the system, they rejected me saying they didn’t have any flight plan, but they seem to have worked it after a while and integrated me.
I understand it’s possible after a while the flight plan showed up on their system and that’s why they took me in, but it felt on the radio they didn’t.
I’ve done it (IFR popup) through Wien Information (FIS).
Some info also here about pop up clearances for airspace transits:
https://www.austrocontrol.at/jart/prj3/ac/data/dokumente/LO_Circ_2023_A_14_en_2023-05-24_0805942.pdf
local copy
Submission of flight plan to TFI WIEN or FIC WIEN during flight (AFIL)
Flight plans may be filed during flight if required by certain circumstances (e.g. due to unforeseen weather changes, emergency situations). In this case, the Flight Information Service (either FIC or TFI) will accept the flight plan data via radio and forward the flight plan to AIS/ARO WIEN for further transmission to the relevant units.
Due to busy radio frequency occupancy and partially incomplete radio coverage it is strongly recommended to file flight plans rather by other means than on the frequency of the FIS. It is also recommended to file a flight plan prior departure for VFR flights, which intend to cross airspaces for which an ATC clearance is required.
Note: Flight plans for flights which continue after landing are not accepted, except in emergency cases (e.g. rescue flights).
Yes; AFIL is supposed to work (EU requirement) but most of Europe has not actually implemented it.
