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Why is there no entrepreneurial mojo when it comes to owner flown in Europe?

F1 drivers drive on average what 4 hours a week? A taxi driver 8 per day?
Just saying…

LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

You want to compare driving a taxi with flying a biz-jet? And F1 drivers drove thousands of hours until they were at the point where they could handle these cars. The discussion is getting a bit funny now.

What what_next wrote, and Jason, are the only acceptable opinions to me.

Thousands of hours?

LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

Yes, just check how many hours Ayrton Senna or Michael Schumacher spent in the Go-Kart and in all those other classes of race cars before they got into a F1 car. And THEN we’re talking about super-talented pure breed sportsmen whose whole life is about racing cars. And when the ydon’t drive then they work out or do other things related to their sport. Hardly comparable with a private pilot flying a Jet 100 per year.

100k depreciation (approx. bluebook figure)

This is arguable because if you chuck in depreciation for every asset you use for your private enjoyment, you will end up dead, having spent your life doing nothing interesting, and with every penny earned having been invested in financial instruments you will die very rich

Also depreciation depends on the plane and what stage of its life you bought it, the engine time, etc.

100k maintenance contract cost (1k per hour)

Some actual input would be interesting, say on a used (2M purchase cost) Mustang, but I am not exactly expecting someone to post what they pay because it’s not the sort of thing gentlemen talk about

100k running cost (fuel, airway, landing, handling)

That one can probably be worked out pretty well.

It doesn’t seem at all impossible to me. There is a lot of detail to consider…

toilet service (you need that on every flight the thing gets used otherwise you will instantly faint when you stick your head into the cabin after tha plane has been parked in Spain for a week)

Indeed, and that (lack of an externally serviced toilet on any plane which fits here) is something the OP (whether he is fake or not, lots of people end up reading these threads) is not considering adequately. I have it on very good authority that pilots of planes with a chemical loo really don’t like anybody using it, and if the OP’s small children do a #2 in there (which they will; small kids often eat some sh1t and get stomach upsets) it’s gonna get really unpleasant. However you would have the same issue in any plane.

are the only acceptable opinions to me.

Dylan22 had 8900hrs – maybe he will drop in shortly

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

However you would have the same issue in any plane.

In “any plane” however it would be NetJet’s problem and not his. But I promised I wouldn’t talk any more on this subject

EDDS - Stuttgart

What I was getting at is that these discussions usually shift towards “buy a TBM/PC12/whatever – almost the same despatch rate, much more versatile, much cheaper to run” but this hypothetical chap wants to have fun in a jet.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

but this hypothetical chap wants to have fun in a jet.

Yes. And I really wish him all the best with it. But in my perception it is better to provide those people with a pessimistic cost estimation than with some fantasy figures. If they spend less than estimated everybody will be happy. But if they find out that it actually costs a lot more than they were told they will bail out as soon as they can. Seen it happen many times.

LFHNflightstudent wrote:

F1 drivers drive on average what 4 hours a week? A taxi driver 8 per day?

Very much off topic (therefore I won’t break any promises I may have made): Many years ago colleagues of mine were flying an F1 driver to a sponsoring event. At destination, a car was waiting for them to drive them from the airport to the hotel where the event was staged and they were booked to stay overnight. That F1 driver of course insisted to drive to the hotel himself – with my poor colleagues in the back. Next morning they invented some excuse why they urgently needed to be at the airport early so that they could go there by taxi (if that answers the question F1 driver vs. taxi driver)

EDDS - Stuttgart

Just realised I know a Mustang owner, near where I am based. I will ask him next time I see him, what he actually pays for his maint programme. I am damn sure he does less than 200hrs/year; most likely way less.

The other point is that, for any given pilot attitude to risk, the amount of risk compensation is likely to relate to hours being flown. A pilot doing 800hrs/year (frankly that would be amazingly high for a private pilot flying himself; he will deffo need an XXL EuroGA t-shirt after eating all those restaurant meals and never getting any exercise ) is likely to be flying in “all” wx. A pilot flying 100hrs/year is likely to be pretty picky about the wx he flies in. So this will work in favour of our hypothetical pilot, especially if he isn’t quite crazy. After all, that is how all those 10hr/year pilots stay alive… their currency is close to nil.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

From the typical accident pattern of these jets in private ownership (including private owners with CPL/ATPL and flying with other CPL/ATPLS) the catastrophic accidents have more to do with poor decision making rather than currency on type and handling.

For example – Citation X crashing at Egelsbach. The owner had an FAA ATPL, more than 4000 hours and over 1000 on type and IIRC over 100 in the last three months. He CFIT by getting to low on a night approach, possibly entering a fog bank or otherwise not having sight of the runway. Co-pilot had an ATPL, too.

Citation SP crashing at Trier. FAA ATPL and JAA CPL, again a few thousand hours and flew with another CPL holder. While not very current on type, hitting a power line pylon in fog while trying to get into a fogged in field without instrument approach (and way below any IFR minima, too) has nothing to do with currency.

The list goes on…

Biggin Hill
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