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A lot more female GA pilots in the US than in Europe

Yes; definitely. Women are more social

That wasn’t my question though. I wondered if women are more likely to chose activities that are more socially accepted, more mainstream. I think perhaps they are. This could explain the difference.

Boating is also a typical male activity. The guy is the captain and the owner. He use 1-2 weeks each spring making it ready for the season etc. But, at least in Norway, boating is extremely widespread. It’s probably one of the most mainstream and socially accepted activities of them all in Norway. So, lots of women are involved, I would think close to 50%. They are equally good sailors, they participate in everything. But, it is nonetheless the males who keeps the whole thing going by purchasing, fixing and maintaining the boats and all the necessary infrastructure.

My point is that, if GA was even remotely similar to boating in social acceptance, the percentage of women would also increase. But then, perhaps not, because boating is by itself an activity that is more social from the start.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Jujupilote wrote:

But when selfishness is a quality, I can’t see society lasting very long. At least, we should agree on this.

Amen. Unfortunately solidarity is not much in fashion these days.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

This will obviously be a factor behind “women in GA” and “women in [lots of other things]” but why would it be a factor behind US versus Europe?

That is actually in line with the predictions of the gender equality paradox quoted by clipperstorch on first page: The gender gap in the US is still bigger than in Europe (e.g. according to WEF GGGP) and therefore it is more likely that women chose to pursue “male” careers.
Share of female engineering students is much higher in North African countries than it is in Scandinavia …

Germany

I am not judging anyone, and didn’t want to start a debate about kids.

Peter wrote:

The two groups of people end up following largely different paths in life. Not objectively better or worse, but definitely different. Even your friends end up being different people, who in turn have different interests.

That’s what we see among our friends. Two distinct groups with different priorities.

But when selfishness is a quality, I can’t see society lasting very long. At least, we should agree on this.

Last Edited by Jujupilote at 05 Apr 09:36
LFOU, France

I think the (often discussed) argument for/against kids is exactly 50/50.

The two groups of people end up following largely different paths in life. Not objectively better or worse, but definitely different. Even your friends end up being different people, who in turn have different interests.

You also drive different cars

Without children:

With children:

I got divorced in 1999 and at that time could have started (or “acquired”) a second family. For sure I would not be flying had I done that, as I would never have been flying had I not got divorced.

In GA, and much else, the biggest “movers and shakers” are people with no kids, or people with grown up kids. Or people with so much money they can buy any level of child care.

This will obviously be a factor behind “women in GA” and “women in [lots of other things]” but why would it be a factor behind US versus Europe? Is child care superior in the US? Some (some) European countries, with very high levels of social provision (i.e. taxation), have high levels of child care, but no special GA activity level.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I would add :

  • most pilots I know never open their car’s hood
  • men (generally, not all) are more inclined to do things “to know they can do it”, which explains some of the new PPLs disappearance
  • women (generally, not all) prefer interactive activities with their peers

We would solve many problems if flying was more social and welcoming.

Ani wrote:

I don’t have kids and I’m proud to say that I’m selfish and I’ll enjoy life the way I like it

It makes me so sad to read this.

LFOU, France

Yes; definitely. Women are more social. Men are much more likely to get into lone activities. Look at who goes fishing, train spotting, plane spotting. OK; maybe you can have wonderful and intellectually engaging interactions when doing these things, but somehow I doubt it

So a structure where there is more social activity will select more women. The US clearly does have that. The whole thing is more a “part of life”.

However, there are two groups in GA, and this is true probably everywhere:

  • those who get a PPL; most of these drop out quickly, but they can make up a lot of the “social scene” at the airfield
  • those who hang in there long-term

My impression is that the two don’t mix much.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

In the US, GS is just much more integrated into society

Perhaps that is it. In the US, GA is socially more accepted, more mainstream. But that raises another question. Are women more likely to chose activities that are socially accepted instead of “fringe” activities ? More so than men? Perhaps.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

There are lots of very obvious social differences US to Europe.

For a start, the European scene is impoverished. Most of Europe has practically no GA – especially the bits where GA would work really well – and a lot of it is due to dysfunctional government systems and corruption. The bits where there is a lot of GA tend to have a dominant “club” culture which is relatively social but most members rarely go past the club next door. Keeps the avgas cost down; most of these are quite poor. In the UK, there are few “clubs” in the accountancy sense but there is a heavy rental scene, with most participants not flying at all unless they can cost-share. In Germany and Switzerland there is more money and more willingness to spend it, which manifests itself as more touring (which is indeed expensive). Whereas any look in US GA social media shows a near total lack of interest in cost sharing, or sharing anything really, so evidently they can afford their hobby.

Like there are “stable rats” (girls mucking out stables, hoping to get a ride) there are “hangar rats”, but the EU national minimum wage makes it unviable to have a “hangar rat”, which excludes a lot of young people from hanging around GA. The NMW has destroyed most jobs which young people had to work their way up. In N Europe it is practically impossible to have somebody working “on the cheap”.

In the US, GS is just much more integrated into society, due to a lot more runways. Many of these are not making money but the FAA (taxpayer) funding keeps them open.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

172driver wrote:

This is most decidedly NOT what I’m saying.

Sorry for misinterpreting you, but then I don’t understand the connection between a person’s ability to bear a child (or not) and his/her interests – in particular that of flying.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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