A student pilot says "Hello EuroGA"

LeSving wrote:

…is deep down a dream of freedom, to fly like a bird.

Just watch the birds in your garden for an hour and you will see that there is zero freedom in what they are doing. Constantly rushing back and forth to seek food for their chicks or fetching spare parts to repair the nest. When they have a moment of peace, they don’t enjoy themselves doing aerobatics but just sit quietly on a twig and relax for a couple of minutes before returning to the threadmill

Everybody has his/her own reasons for flying, inside and outside of general aviation. Personally, I would not fly a single minute for recreation and I would not bother to go any farther in a light plane than I would go in my car: My driving limit is 100km, beyond that I either take the train or scheduled flights.

The only important thing is that we respect our fellow pilot’s way of doing things and let them do as they please.

Peter wrote:

Mission profile = the sort of flying being done (short, long, aerobatics, etc)
Dispatch rate = out of the flights you wanted to do, what % were you able to do (usually limited by weather or the plane being broken)
Utility value = the value of the plane for getting from A to B for a purpose other than just flying

Of course anyone can redefine those words slightly to make them fit in a different context. It doesn’t really change the fact that focusing to much on those words will distract you from focusing on the “Spirit of Aviation”. They are all practical concepts implying that flying is merely a means of obtaining something else. (money, transportation, fame, hot chicks or whatever). You can often hear people saying things like "I don’t really care about flying or aircraft, but my [insert your favorite €1M+ private aircraft] enables me to get where I want, when I want it like no airline can do. If that is true or not, who cares. The implication is an underlying “wisdom” that private GA is not worth spending time or money on, unless it comes with some kind of utility or other value, cutting time for instance.

But, as humans, we are all practical beings. If we can combine “business and pleasure”, we will do so. For most recreational pilots the “business” part has nothing to do with business at all, but could be social, competition, history, photography, technical aspects, travelling to see other places and so on.Often it is a combination of several things.

It’s just that I think you will have a hard time continuing flying as a private pilots all your life if you need some “utility” value to do so. Those who are not able to replace that urge for utility with some “Spirit”, will quit. For some, that “spirit” is what drives them, they are the lucky ones. Frankly, I personally cannot see a single reason to fly (or build aircraft for that matter) except for that “spirit”. Any other utility or other “business” is just a bonus.

tschnell wrote:

none of the planes you mention carries a family of four and even minimal luggage.

Agree, although the PA28 with fuel at the tabs, equivalent to 2-3 hours VFR plus reserves, is a decent load carrier, including a family of four, if the plus two are kids.

The Six-260, has a 1600 lbs useful load and trundles along at 130 knots, it is also a comfortable ride for passengers. A decent version can be had for a modest increase in budget. Ideally in a like minded syndicate of 3-4 owners.

It can carry a family four plus a lot of luggage – plus around 4 hours fuel on VFR reserves.

@tschnell
Non-pilot passengers for long trips have been family. They’re fine with it and know how to pack light (when it’s three of us, limit of 7kg bags per person).

@MedEwok
One piece of advice: when you get you PPL, make sure to do you first x-countries solo (or with a CFI or experienced PPL). DO NOT take your family on your early adventures! It’s important they have confidence in you, and there is no way that can be preserved if they are witnesses to early (inevitable) bungling. There is quite a learning curve and it is best mounted alone.

I waited until I had 200 hours before taking my first non-pilot passenger.

Also never tell your wife or colleagues about training mistakes, etc. Discuss them ONLY WITH OTHER PILOTS. People do not know enough to assess the information you are providing. It will sound to them like you are a hazard to yourself and anyone fool enough to get into a plane with you (which may be true :) if you describe the training process truthfully.

MedEwok wrote:

The discussion over the last dozen or so posts is very interesting but also somewhat intimidating for me. I openly admit to not having thought much about what to do with my PPL before signing up for the course.

I wouldn’t worry. This is the internet effect. You go to a website and everyone provides advice. It can seem overwhelming but people are just trying to help. Inherently on a website with mostly qualified pilots you are relatively inexperienced but we have all been there. I got my PPL in my low 20s and never dreamed to be able to own my own plane due to cost and time issues.

The key in my view is get your PPL and find a way to keep flying in a way that is affordable and achievable for you. It always seems a shame when people stop after getting their PPL. And I personally have always taken my family from about 10 hours after my PPL. But obviously start with some simpler flights.

Also never tell your wife or colleagues about training mistakes, etc. Discuss them ONLY WITH OTHER PILOTS.

Sadly I have to agree.

Of the spectrum of wives of pilots who I have met (and it is many) only a few are happy to discuss crashes etc and still have total confidence in their husband afterwards. My GF has also progressively become scared of flying over the 13.4 (really great) years we have been together, and finally in 2013 she stopped doing long trips altogether due to a build-up of anxiety and not due to any single cause. And she knows I operate and maintain my plane on a money-no-object basis.

Of course the ladies reading this will point out that “pilots’ wives” is a sexist term but (a) most pilots are men and (b) the women who I know or have known who fly GA don’t seem to have the slightest issue with their husbands liking it or not – in most cases because their husbands have no interest whatever in GA.

Jason above is spot on. Also, more specifically, you can do a lot of great flying in a syndicate ownership structure.

Hi Leonard,

Here’s a warm welcome from a fellow member who joined the forum in roughly the same situation as you are in now! Similar age then, just about to get the license, not sure what to do next, really. And here we are, some 4 years later. I just finished my night qualification, planning to get into instrument flying sometime soon, been flying roughly 50 hours per year with at least one major trip per year and no end in sight. Don’t let yourself be intimidated! Euroga is full of good advice and knowledge, but it is true that a large share of active posters are very experienced owner/instrument pilots and sometimes I find this leads to a certain bias towards some things. You neither need to be an owner nor instrument pilot to get great, great value out of GA (although, certainly, both owning and instrument flying will add even more value). If you keep up being motivated to fly and enjoy it as much as you do now, there is no reason to fear you’ll be packing it up quickly. And heck, if you do and move on to other things in life – that’s ok, too!

what_next wrote:

I wonder if you transfer a pilot’s licence from a country…

In the end it is all entered in your EASA pilot’s license, no matter how and where you got your radio license. So in my understanding, every EASA license is also acceptable in Germany, RT included.

This gets interesting when you ask if you’re allowed to operate the radio in German with such a converted license. ELP is a precondition, of course, but does ELP supercede the requirement for a BZF I/II…

WhiskeyPapa wrote:

One piece of advice: when you get you PPL, make sure to do you first x-countries solo (or with a CFI or experienced PPL). DO NOT take your family on your early adventures! It’s important they have confidence in you, and there is no way that can be preserved if they are witnesses to early (inevitable) bungling. There is quite a learning curve and it is best mounted alone.

I waited until I had 200 hours before taking my first non-pilot passenger.

Also never tell your wife or colleagues about training mistakes, etc. Discuss them ONLY WITH OTHER PILOTS

While I agree that it makes sense to build up some confidence post license issue (I found it emotionally overwhelming again, even if I’d flown solo during the training of course, to be now “free”), I’d say that takes far less than 200 hours (that would have been some 4 years of flying for me). To be honest, I did one flight alone and then took my mom on a ride, as I’d promised her. By all means, take a few hours, but don’t let the wait turn into years and years…

I’d also say discuss training experiences and mistakes with people you’re confident to confide in this regard – man or woman alike. I have no wife, so can’t comment, but my ex-girlfriend was always eager to learn what’s going on and we could be quite open about stuff and she still likes to fly with me every now and then. Some people, though, might misinterpret what you tell and really see you as a rowdie pilot just because you don’t fit into their idealistic picture of a professional pilot with whatever-many stripes and an ego up into the flight levels…

Good luck with your training!

Patrick wrote:

This gets interesting when you ask if you’re allowed to operate the radio in German with such a converted license.

My EASA license has two things written in it: XII: “Radiotelephony privileges” followed by a lot of smallprint about English and German language and visual and instrument rules. And XIII: “Remarks” followed among other things by “Language proficiency” with my levels for both English and German.
In my understanding, you are only allowed to communicate in the languages for which you have at least a level 4 entry in your license. The only ones who allegedly check whether or not you do are the French.