Also re the TKS, I would personally strongly advise against knowingly flying into icing conditions. Even the airlines struggle sometimes with rain ice etc. The advice I’ve been given almost universally was to use it as an escape plan rather than planning to fly into ice. Prop de ice should be sufficient to also quickly escape unexpected icing conditions. Especially that the wash will keep your windscreen clean.
@MRL you need to do a good prebuy which sadly was not done. The TB range has suffered from corrosion due to Socata using incorrect metal or incorrectly heat treated metal (which they obviously deny, with the mandatory Gallic shrug 
) and 1988 is quite an old plane so needs a really good airframe borescope check.
@Rami1988 the full TKS system works very effectively but the fluid lasts only an hour or less, which means you can’t just go boring a hole in IMC below 0C on a flight from the UK to Croatia The full tank is barely enough to cross the Alps, for example, so you need to have a plan whereby you climb until you can see clear across the top of them, like e.g. the return route here. Otherwise you can also get this and believe me that will get your full attention! You have to have a proper plan, to end up VMC on top (which in Europe needs a full IR, unless you get lucky with some low layer) ASAP. Yes the prop de-ice is great; I flew with it 2002-2018.
An old engine that had been sitting on the shelf for several years is worthless unless overhauled. And if the crank is corroded, or pre-SB569, it is worthless anyway
I guess it’s a question of risk tolerance and experience. A friend of mine who flies commercially had a twin lose 20pct of power very quickly in icing conditions despite fullly functioning full TKS. The ice was building up quicker than the system could clear it. He had to obtain emergency clearance to descend, and was fairly lucky to escape.
Sure someone with your experience can do it safely for a little while with the right planning, but for a 400 hour pilot I feel its a stretch. It also uses up some weight with a full tank
Must have been really serious icing. I think he meant he lost 20kt; 20% of power means his prop was iced-up but how would he know since the fuel flow will be the same?
The most I’ve had was about 5cm in 5 mins and the TKS system would have coped with that, if only just about. But that happened pre-TKS; my Vs was around 120kt and I got out of it by descent, abandoning an ILS and just diving down.
BTW you don’t need any clearance in an emergency; you just do whatever is needed and tell ATC ASAP.
I agree re knowing about stuff and that is what EuroGA is for
Yes the system with a full tank adds maybe 50kg (roughly equivalent to a Size 8-10 with no luggage ) but that is the price to pay for a big risk reduction / a better despatch rate. But whatever you do, never let it run dry, and test it monthly (takes a few mins’ running – best done on the ground so you can see properly where it is/is not coming out). Also on the ground you can stick some gutter sections on it with duct tape and collect the fluid so you don’t waste much (collecting the VS fluid is not really possible).
Rami1988 wrote:
add an oil analysis so you know whether the engine is coming to the end of its life
Just a note… doing a single oil analysis on an engine that hasn’t flown lately, or only little at all, and without previous history, is basically worthless. One will get very high readings at best, and those would not necessarily be conclusive.
Oil analysis helps in detecting trends. No history = no trends.
An old engine that had been sitting on the shelf for several years is worthless unless overhauled.
This is a sweeping generality. Sometimes it’s true, many times it’s not, and other times it means the engine has a shorter life but still goes for hundreds of hours without issue.
Indeed, especially in Arizona, but in most of Europe everything rusts super fast. And for a TB20 installation an engine needs to be airworthy (especially on EASA-reg; on N-reg an A&P has the authority to inspect and declare airworthy or otherwise). Obviously I am assuming the engine has literally been sitting on the shelf and not been preserved IAW the Lyco service letter(s). IIRC, using the standard shipping preservation you get 1 year.
In the SB569 era I found that Socata had 14 IO540-C4D5D engines on the shelf which had been sitting there around 10 years. Quite a few TB20 GTs were built with these engines, which were probably all quite heavily corroded when installed. I have multiple data points for that (I got one of these too). The logbooks were written-up to show installation dates just within the Lyco specs, and note that it is the installation date which applies here, which is a bit silly. Anyway, I tried to buy one of these, for an exchange for my one, even with no paperwork. Because I knew they were rusted, I planned to overhaul it, but Socata would not sell me any of them, saying they can’t unless they are overhauled, but they insisted they are overhauled by some French shop of their choosing. I am not suggesting any collusion between Socata and the said French shop 
but it is obvious that the shop’s findings would have had the potential for a dramatic adjustment to the value of that stock and even more for aircraft sold with these engines… Basically they knew that these engines were risky to “touch”. Obviously they could not have sold them with a Form 1, and Socata as a company had no mechanism for selling a part with no paperwork.
What one could do with the said engine would be to dismantle it (which any monkey can do in his lunch break) and chuck the bits into a box, checking them for rust. Then get a shop to re-assemble. A price could be pre-agreed, contingent on the findings.
Indeed, especially in Arizona, but in most of Europe everything rusts super fast.
How about Tunisia? I’m currently looking at a plane with an O-540 that was overhauled in 2020, flown 200 hrs since, then when it had some minor issues with 6700 hard hours on the Hobbs Meter it was pushed into a hangar. Would you pay $165K to buy that plane without a prebuy? I might
Obviously I am assuming the engine has literally been sitting on the shelf and not been preserved IAW the Lyco service letter(s). IIRC, using the standard shipping preservation you get 1 year.
One year on paper, but nature doesn’t read the paper.
Certainly pickling the engine IAW Lycoming’s instructions is beneficial. On the other hand it’s rarely done. My O-320 has logbook entries showing it being done… once, in decades of intermittent use. It’s now up to 53 years since assembly, still doing OK but I’m watching the oil consumption slowly increase.
Would you pay $165K to buy that plane without a prebuy
Sure, if it is a fair price with risk discounted. Anyway, with a seller in Tunisia, the records are probably fiction. But all risk can be discounted.
My biggest issue is that I don’t think the price is low enough to account for the risk. The seller is the Tunisian military and a middle man, and the records appear to be correct. But records don’t tell all with a 50 year old plane, or even close to all. A detailed inspection would lower the risk a lot, says he stating the obvious.
