Peter wrote:
How did you get that? I got nothing like it even at FL170. Emir’s route – no chance.
Just manually – it was obvious from the errors that no direct is allowed above FL100.
I’ve discovered recently that AR does not always find the best route.
Although not sure how it could – you need to fully incorporate RAD into planning software to be able do that…
As an off-topic – some restrictions are really stupid, like you cannot fly through some point near Biarritz at FL250 from the UK, unless your departed from EGLC?!
I don’t know the AR rules but it could have an option to “route OCAS”.
It has sometimes done that in the past. Eurocontrol mostly validates such routes.
The short routes above are largely OCAS. And FF finds those, whereas AR doesn’t.
Over the AR era, the code has gradually moved from “being really clever” (and pilots complaining that ATC gets confused as hell at best, and refuses the routes at worst) to using the standard routes.
A lot of the time it was obvious. For example any flights e-w across Belgium would always be KOK-LNO or whatever the standard points are – regardless of what you filed. But in say the UK ATC would be almost totally tactical so you never got what you filed, and similar in parts of Germany.
And of course the AR gets ATC feedback (complaints, mostly) directly…
FF routing is relatively much less known. The company which did the code is Aviation Cloud. They no longer google to anything so I guess FF bought them out and incorporated their code. They are improving all the time.
Peter wrote:
I don’t know the AR rules but it could have an option to “route OCAS”.
Did uncheck the “prefer standard routes (UK/Ireland)” option?
I have got a question. I am currently training for CBIR and I have asked to plan a route from EBCI to LFAV
I wanted to plan EBCI/RWY24 CIV4Y CIV Y50 IDOKO LFAV RNAV Approach/ERLED RWY29
I got following error message in autorouter when entering the route (N0120F050 CIV4Y CIV Y50 IDOKO) which I do not understand: (R)ROUTE134: THE STAR LIMIT IS EXCEEDED FOR AERODROME LFAV [LFAV5A] CONNECTING TO IDOKO.
I fail to get something that makes sense when using autoroute… just wondering how such route could be planned/filed.
Generally speaking, one doesn’t plan IFR routes in Europe by wanting to use a specific STAR, etc. One just types departure and destination, defines min and max altitudes (generously, to start with) and the takes whatever the system returns to you. Trying to understand why certain manual routes work or don’t work is usually just headache-provoking, even if it can be done by studying the AIP and the RAD.
It means ‘No existing/valid arrival procedure or exists between the aerodrome and the specified last point of the route, and/or the direct distance exceeds the maximum allowed for arrivals at that aerodrome and the last point of the route is not defined as a connecting point for that aerodrome.’
https://contentzone.eurocontrol.int/fpl/errorSearch.aspx
jfw wrote:
just wondering how such route could be planned/filed.
I think you should start backward from the destination and find IAF, or close airway point with 10nm DCT, or STAR entry, I guess that would be CMD VOR?
The other thing, in France, in NA SEP, I always optimize the route with min = FL70 and max = FL70, then file it with FL70, that will guarantee being in Echo Airways all the times (plus ability to shortcut OCAS when you like it), when I do that in AutoRouter, I get this beautiful route:
EBCI N0155 F070 CIV4Y CIV M617 CMB LFAV
In theory, you can fly it IFR in any altitude in band FL70-FL110 as it’s in Echo Airway with SIV and likely no one is flying around, if planning on going above FL120, you have to be handed to Radar LTA with General Delta ATC
You can still fly at FL50, you will be in Golf (you need some RA/NOTAMS planing), the SIV will tolerate -2kft deviation from FL70, IFR bellow FL40, it gets twitchy with SIV/ATC, if you go to FL30 you will be talking to aerodromes, military and everyone along the way, bellow 3kft you are not allowed to cruise under IFR 
As boscomantico says, except I’m guilty of manually hacking routes, for fun and profit. Just my hacker mind. It used to be pointless, but I now actually sometimes really improve routes, especially by combining pieces from ForeFlight-generated route and from Autorouter-generated route.
Anyway, let’s assume your instructor wants you to understand the routing system a bit. The error you got means that you stopped the route at IDOKO, and that’s too far away from LFAV. You need to continue the route to a point that is closer to LFAV, below the limit that is defined for LFAV.
To find what the limit is, go to https://www.nm.eurocontrol.int/RAD/, take “AIRAC 2210 – 06 Oct 2022” (that’s the currently active one), then the consolidated version. On page 478 (in Annex 3A), you see that for a long list of aerodromes including LFAV, “Departures/Arrivals DCT = 0NM”, so you need to make a route that goes all the way to the aerodrome… Which is usually not possible, meaning you need to do a route that goes to a point in a STAR and then include that STAR in your route.
Hmm.,. LFAV doesn’t have any STARs. Interesting. So my guess is you do the route up to the IAF, in your case ERLED? Try that. Or, as boscomantico wrote, let Autorouter do that for you.
EDIT: On page 485, you see that CMB is an approved arrival point to LFAV. Seems to be the only one. So make your route to CMB. And on page 542 that the approved departure points (since no SID either) are CMB and MATIX.
lionel wrote:
Hmm.,. LFAV doesn’t have any STARs. Interesting. So my guess is you do the route up to the IAF, in your case ERLED? Try that. Or, as boscomantico wrote, let Autorouter do that for you.EDIT: On page 485, you see that CMB is an approved arrival point to LFAV. Seems to be the only one. So make your route to CMB. And on page 542 that the approved departure points (since no SID either) are CMB and MATIX.
Max DCT = 0nm outside STAR in French airfields but there are no STAR in these airfields
Filing INA IF point of or IAP IAF DCT works these days, go figure !
lionel wrote:
Hmm.,. LFAV doesn’t have any STARs. Interesting. So my guess is you do the route up to the IAF, in your case ERLED? Try that. Or, as boscomantico wrote, let Autorouter do that for you.
Well yes that was my idea… ERLED is the IAF of RNP RWY 29 but it is not accepted. tried CIV Y50 IDOKO DCT ERLED (as ERLED is not on Y50) but that does not work… seems to me I can not file anything that makes sense to do a RNP RWY29
Generally, file what validates and deal with details tactically (that is in flight).
