In Spain there are 4 species of vultures. Only the main one, had 25.000 individuals in 2008. No updated census has been made since then. But taking into account exponential growth, now we are full of vultures here. Vultures are considered in need of ‘special protection’ here by goverment institutions, so it will get much worse if nobody changes this clasification and takes different measures.
In 20 years flying I know of several bird strikes, but all with no fatal consecuencies. This year we have 10 deaths by this reason in 5 months. Terrible.
That is a real problem.
What would you say is their altitude profile? I know they have been seen at FL300 etc but that can’t be common.
Would flying at say 10k get you above most of the risk?
I was in LEBG (Burgos) yesterday, and in the morning of the flight, was invited by the OPs manager to have a discussion before our departure.
This was to learn me that a fatal accident had happened the day before, near Pampluna. They were VFR, the accident happened in the late afternoon (18:00 LT). I don’t know the altitude they were cruising at, only they were flying from Coimbra (Portugal) to Dax (France).
The announcement of that terrible news became a huge stress factor, reactivating what I had read on the forum the months before. In a way it became inappropriate, because I had flown in without thinking too much about that hazard. But when you think to it, there is really nothing you can do if it happens.
We took off, eyes wide opened, tried to avoid the area of the crash (a colony maybe ?). But I was limited here: I don’t know where they live, and what time of the day they use to go out. Was it safer in the morning than in the afternoon ? I guess higher is the safer, but how high is safe enough ?
I really wonder how you access this risk, you Spanish pilots, and those who use to fly there.
I really join my thoughts to the ones who stayed there, and to their family.
These birds behave like gliders. So, just as in the vicinity of a gliding site, we can avoid obvious thermals and stay in the “sink” of mountain wave.
Not 100% practicable, and not a 100% solution, but short of equipping these critters with ADSB-out…
…come to think of it, aren’t many protected raptors fitted with radio-tracking devices? So, in theory, with suitable equipment, we could “ping” them.
Maybe an OWT, but landing light on might help.
Smaller birds tend to dive away as part of their survival tactic from predators. As these birds are at the top of their food chain they may not have the necessary reflex reaction, although come to think of it the Cub might not qualify as a predator to them. In my experience larger birds seem to see and avoid the Cub at its normal cruise speed.
Having flown in Spain cor many years I can confirm it’s full of birds, big and small. There isn’t really much you can do to avoid the big ones, as they soar to great altitudes. I have encountered vultures in the 10k region quite a few times, luckily never very close, though! Also, the gulls along the shores can get huge! Where I used to live, we regularly had some perch on a ledge right outside our windows every morning and these birds were massive. However, they all seem to dive away when encountered in the air.
Bear in mind, that Spain lies in the main migratory route for birds to and from western Africa. There is a chart somewhere on the AENA site showing the main flyways and also giving some seasonal information.
If you really want to avoid vultures and eagles, the best tactic is to fly early in the morning. These birds need thermals for soaring and flying before these have developed is your safest bet.
PS: and yes, agree on landing light. not sure it really helps, but at least you are more conspicuous.
@172driver wrote:
There is a chart somewhere on the AENA site showing the main flyways and also giving some seasonal information.
I didn’t find it out. Would be interesting to give a better look. Would you have a link ?
172driver wrote:
If you really want to avoid vultures and eagles, the best tactic is to fly early in the morning.
That makes sense. Early and high. Eyes opened and lights on.
That’s better than nothing.
Jacko wrote:
radio-tracking devices
That would be an idea !! 1984 is not far in some way :-)
The main migratory routes are depicted HERE but keep in mind that the main issue if concern are birds of pray, vultures in particular, and those are not migratory birds.
In fact there is now a big debate and concern among pilots in Spain. We don’t know really how to minimize this risk in a noticeable degree.
The aircraft of this last accident was flying at less than 1000’AGL because of a low level ceiling in the area. No thermal activity was present at the moment.
Flying high can reduce in some level the probability, but as others have said, I’ve seen also vultures at 10.000. In addition it is not always possible to fly that high VFR. For example, the second accident in this year, a C172, was flying low under Madrid TMA (Class A) in an area where its lower limit is below 1000’ AGL. This TMA is huge and covers a big area.
Now I see vultures in almost all of my flights. Several times per flight. Sometimes you found a very big flock, 50-100 birds, turning in the same thermal with a big vertical spread. Really difficult to avoid ALL of them.
A few weeks ago, a saw one big vulture very near. I was able to tell its eyes color. Not much margin to perform any maneuver. Fortunately he didn’t dive, otherwise…
I can understand perfectly how this kind of accident can occur.
Maybe the crazy 1000ft AGL stuff should change. Italy also has vast swathes of it, with absolutely no relevance to any traffic management.
Seriously, if some of these critters have radio tracking devices fitted (like many birds of prey in Scotland), it shouldn’t be too difficult for some enterprising Korean teenager with a Raspberry Pi and a soldering iron to display their whereabouts on our iPads.
