It’s also odd to me that the tower said nothing. I’ve only ever lined up on the wrong runway once – at a very quiet time at a normally busy airport. Tower were onto it immediately, though all they said was “clear to land left or right, your choice”.
Snoopy wrote:
what would two pro guys/gals do differently to two PPLs?
I’d like to know / understand that too. I wonder why the PNF was (apparently) doing the radio? My experience of flying with an elderly friend, who could fly the plane better than I ever will, was that he could “lose the plot” on the radio. I’m not suggesting for a moment that happened here, but there has to be a valid question about why they shared the duties (if they did). Personally, the last thing I need is someone else doing the radio, but then perhaps that’s just because I’m a control freak.
How is that any different from the pilot alone and himself reading back correctly but „getting it wrong“?
It is less likely to read back “30 left” three times and still landing on “30 right” than when you’re never saying it out loud and are only passively listening to two other people’s communications. That requires active listening, which is the first thing that goes out the window when you’re starting to get overloaded.
If the radio operator understands and reads back everything perfectly, but somehow the flying pilot gets it wrong, there is little chance to catch such errors
How is that any different from the pilot alone and himself reading back correctly but „getting it wrong“?
In professional multi crew operations, there are checks and balances in place which don’t exist in the case of an informal task sharing setup.
„Dude, you’re lining up for the wrong runway“.
Again, what would two pro guys/gals do differently to two PPLs? Curious!
Here’s the runway diagram.
Live ATC has KVGT Tower. If you have ForeFlight you can watch internet traffic on the sectional while listening to Live ATC, simultaneously on your phone. I do this for some time to familiarize myself with a new airport before flying there.
North Las Vegas is not the main Las Vegas shown in the pic above. My memory is of 2 runways in almost a V, but not joined. Not parallel. ATC then was impressive, and so was traffic density.
Rwy20 wrote:
In professional multi crew operations, there are checks and balances in place which don’t exist in the case of an informal task sharing setup.
That’s one of things I always stress: single pilot aircraft is a single pilot aircraft; task sharing between people who are not trained for multi-crew operations is just source of potential problems. When I fly with a colleague pilot then it’s either me or (s)he flying, there’s no task sharing. If the other person is flying I will step in only if I see that situation is deteriorating endangering the safety of the flight. And then it’s complete taking over rather then helping in some tasks.
There might be an additional factor at play, or it might not. That is, if maybe the person doing the radio is not the one flying, there is an additional error source. If the radio operator understands and reads back everything perfectly, but somehow the flying pilot gets it wrong, there is little chance to catch such errors unless there is communication in the cockpit to confirm clearances. In professional multi crew operations, there are checks and balances in place which don’t exist in the case of an informal task sharing setup.
As someone who gained his US wings at VGT in 1988 and has flown from, or to there almost every year since I find this tragedy perplexing.
The pilot would have expected 30L because of the convenient turn off to the ramp and 30R would have felt ‘wrong’ because it involved crossing the active 30L. ‘Expectation bias’ would have favoured the correct runway and even if he’d fixated on the 30R threshold after rolling out of the tight turn (which is necessary because of the proximity of class ‘B’), he’d surely have realised the error on final because he’d have been thinking “how am I going to get to the ramp”.
VGT has a reputation for incursions and it’s ‘LAHSO’ operations but none of that has any bearing on this awful accident IMHO. Maybe there’s more than we know at present.
There will be some fuss about that unofficial conversation that has a message for all of us. RIP to all of them.
dublinpilot wrote:
So if something seems odd, best to confirm the instruction while also pointing out the bit that seems odd or unusual.
Very good tip. “Why is he telling me to do something I think I am already doing? Perhaps I’m not actually doing what he expects or what I think I am doing…”
