Another PA46, N5EQ, down at Goose Bay Happy Valley...

I did always wonder why our planes do not have some kind of digital assitant which tries to analyse the current state and configuration and then issues simple aural hints, especiall for single pilot ops. We just have crude stall wanring and check gear warnings but there is nothing which tries to at least analyse a little the context. It should not be so difficult to come up with a much more capable system.

@Sebastian_G
I think some black boxes currently under development come quite close of the « copilot » you describe. For instance, this is just a black box which could easily be hacked into a « copilot ».

Safetyn:

Airborne_Again wrote:

172driver wrote:

What stands out, if I heard that correctly, they were doing 70kts, which sounds very slow for a PA46
But that must have been ground speed? The winds were strong, gusting 20+ kt.

I listened to the audio. The controller gives the following information to the PIC of the PA46:

“Winds are 050 17 gusting 22, number 1 08”

Then the controller calls the second aircraft and says

“You are number two to a PA46T currently on a 7 mile final, 70 knots”

Taking those figures, their TAS was around 86, maybe max 90knots. Why would a PA46T be at such an airspeed 7 miles from the runway…

Nestor wrote:

I think some black boxes currently under development come quite close of the « copilot » you describe. For instance, this is just a black box which could easily be hacked into a « copilot ».

Safetyn:

Visited the site, was intrigued so wanted to take the online assessment but as soon as I realised the choice of languages are either

1) French(France) or
2) Francais,

it’s “L’ordinateur a dit non” from me….

Steve6443 wrote:

Taking those figures, their TAS was around 86, maybe max 90knots. Why would a PA46T be at such an airspeed 7 miles from the runway…

Sounds like right around Vs0*1.3. That’s ok on final App.

That’s ok on final App.

Definitely not!
This would be ok in no wind conditions, over the hedge, aiming for a short runway, period.
Though admittedly I know very little about the PA46, one would never be at 7NM, not even at 3NM, in calm conditions, at minimum approach speeds. In whatever aircraft.
The more so in blustery conditions, hanging on the thread at 1.3Vs0 for the remainder of the approach to a runway that is more than twice of what is required.

Anyone remembers anything at all about increments in certain conditions?

Sounds like right around Vs0*1.3. That’s ok on final App.

Even if it’s bellow coupled AP speeds? (say no AT/ASI modes)

At slow speeds AP will struggle in backside of the power curve (airspeed becomes unstable and bleeds against power), the natural result is aircraft stall on full power when you go few kts under Vref (1.3×Vs0) on gusty days

It’s more pronounced on climbs but on gusty ILS with gear down & flaps you can see it when you start adding power to keep speed everytime you hit a gust

It’s not rocket science and very trivial thing when one is hand flying: you push and gun it when you hit sink on short final, that quickly recover the glideslope on a slow approach (pulling to capture GS from bellow at very slow speeds gets you the jackpot, sometimes even full power is not enough)

Most airframe STC for AP have “min AP speed”, it’s usually halfway between Vref & Vfe

“You are number two to a PA46T currently on a 7 mile final, 70 knots”
Taking those figures, their TAS was around 86, maybe max 90knots. Why would a PA46T be at such an airspeed 7 miles from the runway…

Would the 70kt be GS? ATC see only your GS.

I was once warned by a “really smart” tower guy at EDNY that I was going so slowly that only his warning prevented me from crashing

Peter wrote:

Would the 70kt be GS? ATC see only your GS.

I was once warned by a “really smart” tower guy at EDNY that I was going so slowly that only his warning prevented me from crashing

Unless you are transmitting ADS-B out and they have ADS-B in receivers showing TAS, then their only measurement will be ground speed. Based on that, the reported winds and rudimentary math, the TAS of the PA46 would have been around 86Knots. 7 Miles out.

Further basic math also says: On a 3° ILS glide slope, that far out they would have been at nearly 2000 feet AGL. Dragging the aircraft in on Vs1.3 that far out makes no sense whatsoever.

However there is a caveat which I must add to that, especially when reviewing yesterday’s flying.

The closest international airport with METARs to me is EDDL – and they were reporting winds yesterday as being 150/16G22. At my home airfield, however, the windsock was hanging limp – a surprise for EDLD! – so I decided to go for a flight around the Ruhr Valley I took off and 1000 feet above the ground I had winds at 201/28, rising to 43 knots at 2000ft AGL. Great for heading north – however I was initially heading south ;)

So, based on that, if the winds were measured at 16G22 on the ground, they could have been significantly higher at 2000feet which means the TAS of the PA46 could easily have been the 110Knots approach speed.

ADS-B won’t contain your TAS either, unless your avionics are emitting that data, which on a PA46 is possible but not very likely.

Also most ATC doesn’t see ADS-B data.