Peter wrote:
I agree, but this is IME normal.
And that is, at least partly, why two people are dead. I think it is unacceptable to fly with a passenger in IMC unable to correctly operate the equipment in your plane. Learning to use a GNS430w is available in so many places including free stuff all over the internet that there is no excuse.
Another factor here in Europe is that many “overlays” are only partial, especially sids and stars, and more especially stuff with DME arcs, so most pilots prefer to “get involved” and (while using the autopilot) prefer to fly stuff manually. That also sidesteps a load of “WTF is it doing now” gotchas.
I think that may be some pilots who are lazy and don’t make any effort to understand their equipment. Flying it manually is fine but you need to understand your equipment and set it up correctly as you are removing some of the safety net you get by doing it the way the equipment is meant to be used.
Same with frequency loading. I have never flown with anybody who uses that. I have that feature too but it is too clumsy, and most frequencies are not in the database anyway.
Lots of people use it and the ILS frequencies are always in the database (at least in Garmin GNSx30 onwards).
It also had a terrain database that wasn’t used. What a shame that is as well.
It is interesting that it seems quite a few don’t understand how the various versions of the 430 work.
His passenger held a PPL and therefore a radiotelephony license which would, even by the old German rules, qualify him as a second pilot.
In Germany, you need a radiotelephony licence for IFR flights (AZF) to be the Copilot on an IFR flight.
It is worth noting (as I read the report) that he was currently flying large FMS jets and comfortable with that operation. Compared to even a 90s jet cockpit, the 430/530 is not very user friendly, and does not clearly display the right information.
For someone used to flying an aircraft where raw data is always displayed on the HSI or equivalent and GPS or FMS generated information is on the map display there are a lot of gotchas in a traditional GA IFR cockpit.
To me, there are also important lessons about familiarisation and recency if you fly IFR in multiple types.
Same with frequency loading. I have never flown with anybody who uses that. I have that feature too but it is too clumsy, and most frequencies are not in the database anyway.
It is the standard procedure with all GNS430/430W/5307W to call up the procedure with PROC and have the frequencies loaded into the standby window. IME nobody would do that manually. Of course you need a valid database, but i guess every serious IFR pilot does.
Every ILS frequency is in the database.
It is only standard procedure if you have been taught it. As the AAIB state, there are no specific training requirements for the 430/530 series.
Peter wrote:
Same with frequency loading. I have never flown with anybody who uses that.
Thats totally normal when flying with an FMS or similar. The accident pilot had been an airline captain, so I assume he was used to that.
Flyer59 wrote:
It is the standard procedure with all GNS430/430W/5307W
There is no such thing as a “standard procedure” for this kind of equipment, especially in a private operation!
Flyer59 wrote:
In Germany, you need a radiotelephony licence for IFR flights (AZF) to be the Copilot on an IFR flight.
But this was a VFR flight… Anyway, as far as I understand it, with SERA this German “IFR flying with autopilot or AFZ-holder in the RHS rule” is history.
what_next wrote:
Anyway, as far as I understand it, with SERA this German “IFR flying with autopilot or AFZ-holder in the RHS rule” is history.
Not with SERA, but with part-NCO.
Dave_Phillips wrote:
It is only standard procedure if you have been taught it. As the AAIB state, there are no specific training requirements for the 430/530 series.
True but nothing stops a pilot from studying it themselves.
