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Crossing the Lyon Class C Airspace, flying to southern France

a_kraut, thanks a lot for these wonderful proposals – I’d be glad if the weather will be fine on the easter weekend.

Thanks to everyone else, all my questions have been answered perfectly! Perhaps I’ll come back to you just before the trip if I expect some troubles with my routing.

EDSO, Germany

Annecy LFLP and Le Versoud LFLG offer fuel with BO card. Le Versoud also offers a restaurant and mogas.

LFOU, France

TobiasM wrote:

Just another idea: Flying through Switzerland!
and avoiding the Lyon CTR.
Which airfield would you recommend for refueling?

You may fly

a) Stuttgart – Annemasse – Annecy – Sisteron – Cannes
That includes a lot of precise low flying and crossing several CTR. I would not like that route.

b) Stuttgart – Bremgarten – Lons-le-Saulnier – Sisteron – Cannes
This route is way easier, either high in good weather or low in bad weather: be careful at Fessenheim, LFP9 Peruges and LFZIT11 near Lyon, the rest is easy.

b1) Stuttgart – Bremgarten – Lons-le-Saulnier – Lyon Bron – Sisteron – Cannes
Easyier flying in bad weather

c) Stuttgart – Sittersdorf Swizerland – Vierwaldstättersee – Andermatt/Gotthardpass – Ambri – Locarno (take a deep breath) – LILE Biella Cerrione (low flying there) – LIMZ Cuneo – Gap – Sisteron – Cannes
Definitely a fantastic, very scenic route in good weather.

Lyon CTR is the easiest part regardless of the route you take. b) might be the easiest, b1) the easiest in bad weather, c) the most beautiful in excellent weather.

For refueling: depends on your range. Use the pireps in Skydemon and in eddh.de

Last Edited by a_kraut at 12 Feb 19:44
Bremen (EDWQ), Germany

TobiasM wrote:

Now there are just the NOTAMs left… but SkyDemon displays all of them
make sure to check the AIP Sup as well, unfortunately SD does not display those.
TobiasM wrote:
another idea: Flying through Switzerland
as I wrote in post 9 above, but in april you will need to be lucky on the weather front. The VFR route is at 4,500 ft MSL. AGL would be a rollercoaster.
Last Edited by Arne at 12 Feb 17:34
ESMK, Sweden

Neuron is a UCAV being flight tested from Istres near Marseille (the French equivalent of Edwards AFB ). You must check AIP SUP 200/2018 that gives the specific restricted areas. They cover the whole Golfe du Lion, only over water, from 3000ft to FL385.

Édit : new AIP SUP is 025/2019, same areas available for those flight tests (activated with 2hrs warning) until March 2, so you should be good.

Last Edited by Jujupilote at 12 Feb 12:47
LFOU, France

Just another idea: Flying through Switzerland! I already was in Annemasse two years ago, so there was no problem for me. I noticed the VFR-Route from Annecy (reporting point November) going down until Saint Genix, near the CTR of Grenoble. Did I get it right that it has to be flown in 4.500 ft AGL? If so, this would be a another perfect option to get to the south, and avoiding the Lyon CTR. Which airfield would you recommend for refueling? I have a BP Card and also a Total Carnet, so I’m able to refuel at the automatic service stations…

EDSO, Germany

Then for an excercise, visit Jesenwang (400m tarmac) and Baltrum (360m grass, but the airport is the most interesting on this little island, so after a stop there, you may proceed to Juist (beach), Borkum, Lange- or Wangerooge…).

Bremen (EDWQ), Germany

a_kraut wrote:

With landing speed, you mean final approach or touchdown speed?

Sorry, I meant the final approach speed… it’s written like this in the owner’s manual of the Zodiac. The touchdown speed is much lower, about 70 km/h. Perhaps it’s only because I’m not used to land on these short tracks…

EDSO, Germany

TobiasM wrote:

I have to say, that with my plane and my landing speed at 110 km/h the length of the runway with about 300-350 meters wouldn’t make me feel really good…

That’s an UL? With landing speed, you mean final approach or touchdown speed? Both are high for an UL, but to tuchdown with 59kts is way, way to fast. I normally touchdown with 47/48kts IAS without power if solo. My plane has a wing loading of 60kg/m^2 solo and 74 kg/m^2 at MTOW, Vs0 46-43kts (in reality 2kts more). ULs are certified with 35kts Vs0, thus 40kts touchdown should be feasible. Then, 300m should be really comfortable for an UL, even if it is one of these 330kg empty/small wing high performance UL.
</smartassmode off>

Last Edited by a_kraut at 12 Feb 10:27
Bremen (EDWQ), Germany

Finally found your NEURON 2018. It is a oNe Euro campaign which seems to be taking place across France and which for some reason needs the creation of some temporary restricted zones during February and March 2019.
The AZBA’s are totally different. They are very fast low flying jet corridors and are activated by Notam usually the day before.If you download the AZBA from the SIA website they give a map of the corridors across France and colour the areas that are going to be activated at what date and at what time. Its good to remember that the base and ceiling of these corridors are given as heights above surface level and not altitudes.

France
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