Diesel: why is it not taking off?

This may seem really off topic but is a great illustration of why non-US-made diesels have a hard time in the USA.

There isn’t much non-US-made that really took off in the US, so that isn’t a big surprise, I guess.

European sailplanes are more or less universal in the US. No engine

Peter, I’m glad you saw it that way. Sometimes context can help the explanation, it was my intent.

There isn’t much non-US-made that really took off in the US, so that isn’t a big surprise, I guess.

That is for sure a factor but let me give you another example.

I make specialised industrial electronics. There is another pilot I know who makes similar stuff, and sells mostly in Germany where he is based.

I have 2 people and fly a TB20.

He has about 100 people and flies a TB20 and a TBM

I sell all over the world but have found it virtually impossible to sell anything in Germany. The reasons include

• Germans demand very very good local representation; the industrial customers are extremely reluctant to deal directly with a foreign company. And my German agent was poor and I never had the time to find a better one, and by the time I realised, it was too late.
• The language (I had our website translated into German but it didn’t do anything due to the reason above; everybody could still see the company is in the UK)
• The large domestic market is well served by a load of local companies (expensive but locally made and locally supported)

(France is a similar scenario; slightly different).

To sell European-made diesels in the USA you would be competing with a huge home scene of well known engines and a support network of maybe 100 overhaul shops. The engines are very reliable. The PA28 I did my IR in was doing 700hrs/year and if the engine was breaking all the time the firm would be out of business.

One of the US players (Lyco or Conti) could do it, if they set up a similar system to what they have with their avgas stuff i.e. sell engines as new, reman, etc, and sell parts for overhauling them. And publish all drawings, parts list, specs, etc.

Diamond can make some progress in the USA because they have a good product and the avgas twin market died about 30 years ago so the DA42 is able to bring a lot of innovation.

OTOH the words “Made in Germany” are highly valued, also in the US. Maybe an attitude like “never change a running system” also plays a big role on the other side of the pond. One example might be the Starship. That failed despite beeing a US-product and so also did the Skycatcher. The Germans do like hightech instead – just good isn’t good enough

luckymaaa wrote:

luckymaaa 24-Jan-16 16:33 #169
Any news on the Diamond DA20 Diesel ? There was a mock up on the Aero 2015 but never heard anything since then.

Here 1 week ago i asked a question…. over 14 pages later off Diesel/non Diesel etc. still no answer about the question. (before the thread was dead for 6 Month)
Is the DA20 Diesel (Jet A1) dead ?
We have the DA20 with the Conti engine on it, but we have huge problems to make it run nearly every time you want to go flying. The last Email said we should pre heat it if temp are below 18°C, silly in my eyes…. our DR401 with the CD155 is running with turning the key, as simple it could be…. so despite have a lot of notches on this aircraft…. the engine itself did work the last 15 Month, the problem maker are the radiator (the 3rd or 4th now ) and the fuel gauge. (this seems to be solved now)
So from the Engine perspective itself we would be interested in a Jet A1 2 seater …

Regards

Did you call Diamond? They should know better than the majority of users here.

yes, but no answer so far.

luckymaaa wrote:

we would be interested in a Jet A1 2 seater

I guess I needn’t really say this, but there is no aviation diesel available today with the power for a 2-seater (80-100 hp). There was the DAIR at one time but it was never produced in volumes, I wonder why. It applied the 2-stroke opposing piston concept of the famous Jumo 204 to a very light two-cylinder. Depending on the price, there ought to be a market for such an engine, if only for the successors to the C150/152.

Another promiser, equally unfruitful, was the 3-cylinder version of the Wilksch engine (120 hp, I recall?). Both designs confirmed Britain’s tradition of strong engineering with no equally good marketing to follow.

There are some car engine conversions – search for Dieselis for one example – but it is not a given these can run on Jet A1: designed for proper diesel fuel aka gasoil, they rely on this fuel’s higher viscosity for internal lubrication – particularly the injection pump, I believe. Running them on Jet A1 would likely ruin them, except if much modified.

Peter wrote:

I sell all over the world but have found it virtually impossible to sell anything in Germany.

We didn’t have much problems selling to Germany, with a website only in English.

The only thing you absolutely need is a fax machine…