Some commercial operators have their mannuals approved by NAA and yes some don’t hand fly the NDB on “pilot interpreted raw data” from ADF, they fly them with 3D magenta guidance on PFD with autopilot hooked like ILS or RNP….you need to have the airport in your FMS data-base to fly and ADF to stay legal
I think it’s company specific: AirFrance & Transavia has such capability, they can still fly NDB hands off if ILS is U/S…RyanAir does not have such capability and they fly them with their hands & feets on neddles all way down: while they have a top safety record, they were one inch from killing 300 people twice on NDB !
All airliners will have ADF bolted somewhere to listen to music or thunderstorms cells, there is plenty of cockpit space and it’s cheap to fit as it’s never gets integrated with FMS Navigator & Autopilot…
The obsession on using it for primary flying or as cross check is left to debate between private pilots…this is only relevant during IR tests, when one flies he really does what he wishes as long as he carries one (anyone else finds that non-stop ADF music to be annoying? or disorientating?)
Peter wrote:
Do you have a reference for the above text?That is just procedural gold plating.
That’s implicit – if nothing else because EU regulations don’t permit RNAV equipment to be used in lieu of traditional navigation (“fix substitution”). Even with the changes the coming autumn, this will not be allowed in all cases, particularly not for final approach guidance. (But it would be allowed for an NDB hold.)
Anyway, if you do carry an ADF, why not have it tuned and identified for cross-checking? It doesn’t do any harm…
because EU regulations don’t permit RNAV equipment to be used in lieu of traditional navigation (“fix substitution”).
I don’t think so. The regs do not allow substitution of equipment carried.
The US allows some of that, but with various conditions e.g. on which part of the procedure the substitution is not allowed.
Even with the changes the coming autumn
Is this on some EU website?
In UK, it’s very rare, maybe max 5 owners in the last 20 years managed to do IR test in their own aircraft?
This must be somewhat of an underestimate because I’ve personally instructed four UK IR’s in the last couple of years in students own aircraft, one of whom did not have an ADF fitted and required long flights to/from the Channel Islands to find a suitably acceptable approach.
I would point out that I needed to spend a fair bit of time reviewing aircraft paperwork and asking the owners for more.
The list of requirements that Rate One request is based on UK examiner requirements. Sometimes it may be possible to negotiate around those.
It seems pretty common now to fly an ILS and LNAV during the initial IR test to include both RNP and precision approaches – arguably one benefit of not having an LPV option in the UK.
This must be somewhat of an underestimate because I’ve personally instructed four UK IR’s in the last couple of years in students own aircraft, one of whom did not have an ADF fitted and required long flights to/from the Channel Islands to find a suitably acceptable approach.
I am sure there are some who did it but the majority are less vocal about it though…for my case it just did not work (maybe I was too vocal that my aircraft had INOP ADF 
)
Someone in UK SE may have to move his aircraft to Glocs, Hawarden or Lydd and fly far away to tick the box (not sure if Jersey is possible now for IR test?)
+V discussion moved to the +V thread
Navaid substitution discussion moved here
