Flying with a toddler (including over water)

Just as a reminder, the probability of your engine quitting on a 1h over-the-sea flight is in the order of 1/200000.
This may suggest the comfort+anxiety+enjoyment and other items above should take precedent over the possibility of a ditching. Great to brief and prepare for it, but it should not be central to the conversation for a flight as intended in the OP.

As a data point our three kids have been flying since 1-mo-old following similar precautions as listed above. Now that they are teenagers they are not any more deaf, weird or stubborn than all the other teenagers so it does not seem to have affected them. Having said that it has affected mum whose anxiety has grown over the years…make sure you avoid turbulence as much as possible in your flight planning!

To the OP: what are your wife’s thoughts on the matter? She’s probably the best placed of all of us to advise!

First flight with the 3.5yr old went brilliantly. 25 minutes from EGLM to EGTN in a TB10.

He spotted other aeroplanes, loved his headset, and even pointed out a golf course. Though how a boy of that age should know what a golf course looks like from the air, I don’t know….

In Northern European waters, I think a toddler would be likely to die of exposure unless you were rescued very quickly. I think they would need to be in a liferaft cuddling with an adult, to have a decent chance of lasting more than a few hours. I appreciate that’s the plan, but I’d want to be very sure of making it jnto the raft.

Jujupilote wrote:

Interesting note on no-headset flying from udo.

They took quite some effort in the sound proofing of the later model C Comanche. There is lightweight insulation material, double pane windows. One has to have it flown to realize it. But the RPM is important, too. At around 2200 RPM it starts to get a lot louder.

Of course one has to take into account that power settings are comparatively low. But we still do around 150 knots true on 2000. However, with much less noise things are less stressful, and to have the kids to be able to move freely in the plane is a relief for all of us.

What IS funny is when they start to play something, like clapping with the hands, you can feel the little movements, or when you constantly have to readjust the trim. It’s a huge difference if the kids play in the third row and then climb forward to see what’s happening in front. I don’t have altitude hold, so first thing is that nose goes down and I have to counteract

Love that cabin…

YMMV.

Literally! That said, on the Dover Calais crossing, if one flies as high as the airspace Alpha allows, then one must be flying quite a brick to not be able to land back on land. And the only reasons requiring the pilot fly lower could be clouds (if not instrument capable) or convectivity / ice that one wants to stay out of (even if instrument capable).

So, if instrument capable, one can pretty much rule out the possible need of going into the water on crossings to and from the continent.

Maybe my 11mo was too young to remove his headset, or maybe he’s an anomaly.
Interesting note on no-headset flying from udo.

I would concur on the very high risk in case of ditching in a high-wing or one-door aircraft. The channel water is at 17-20°C at the moment.
But the OP:

• flies a Cirrus (with engine monitoring and a chute)
• has a raft,
• and his wife is a swimming champion
  and that to me improves his chances considerably.

From 7-8k feet, crossing the channel over Dover, you won’t be unable to reach land for a long time.

YMMV.

@dublinpilot great post and I agree with all of it. I don’t believe that children too small to take responsibility for their own physical safety and life rafts are a combination that will ever end well.

Today I’m going to take my godson flying for the first time – he is 3 and a half. His mother will be in the back with him, and his father (who is doing his PPL – albeit slowly, he doesn’t get much free time) will be in the front with me. We will bring plenty of cushions so he can see out, and a very good point from @etn about them thinking the noise comes from the headset….. how to solve this…. maybe start up without the headset on, thus showing that the headset makes it quieter?

Anyway, it will only be a short 20 minute hop – bring them to stay with us for the weekend and even if he gets a bit tetchy it beats (for them) 1hr+ sat in bank holiday traffic where he is equally likely to get tetchy.

I’m probably more conservative that most here on such matters. I’m a nervous cross water flyer anyway.

I waited until my daughter was five until brining her flying (I wanted to do it at 4, but that didn’t happen). Plenty of “practice” at home with the headset meant that she was comfortable with it. She was also old enough to be excited about going flying and to appreciate what was happening.

But even now, I’m conscious about brining her cross water. I think (and it’s purely my own instinct rather than knowledge based on any particular facts or statistics) that she would be unlikely to survive a ditching. The idea of being able to do anything calm when you’ve just survived a landing on water, then getting freezing cold water on you, the aircraft filling up, and having lots to do, makes me think that even getting a young child to listen to you telling them what to do, is very unlikely. Many people never make it into the raft, never mind being able to hand a child in. Or course coming down under a chute might help.

And I think if the reason for brining her on a cross water flight is because “I want” to bring her on a nice trip, when in fact she would enjoy a nice over land flight to the beach for ice cream just as much, then I shouldn’t be exposing her to the additional risk for my own benefit. But of course the same argument could be made for me bringing her flying at all, and I’m doing that! So maybe not totally rational!

But I do think Clipperstorch is correct when he says “I think the chances of survival for all POB equal pretty much the chance that no ditching is required.”

In other words, the chance that you all have a nice day and everything goes well is very high. But if it doesn’t work out, the consequences are likely to be very bad.

I’m more conservative about flying with children than most on here, and you’re the child’s parent, so it’s your choice to make. We can’t keep our children free from every risk. So we have to choose which ones we accept for them and which not.