Peter wrote:
it works fairly well with the way of approaching problems in certain European cultures: apply the most complex technological solution and eventually you will make it work and then you can say how brilliant you are
I’m smiling… a lot. 
A couple of other examples come to mind.
I have been going to L2K for years. When I started, there was one entry lane for crew and passengers, one office, one passport control person, you showed your passport and went on you way into France. Then, for many years, there was none. Through you went. Then about a year ago, two lanes appear, one in, one out and two passport officers! When you leave they say “hello again, and you show them the same passport, and they go through the same process, and off you go”. BTW we havent yet Brexit’d so no change there, but maybe Macron does come to L2K more often. Then sometimes the AIP says email for PPR, then sometimes not, then usually when you call they tell you dont bother, no one is interested.
Another little hop is the Channel Islands. I recall you had to decide 48 hours in advance you wanted to go. How anyone knows two days in advance. Then you completed a form when you got there, and when you left. Then you couldnt enter the zone unless it was perfect VMC or on an IFP. Now, much more relaxed. Then, as now, fuel wasnt within 20% of the price of the UK, but 50% less (actually I think the differential is less now). Now and then you could take a dog with you, but now and then you can take a dog to France, but you had better put the dog on the ferry if it wants to come back from France, but all OK from the Channel Islands – not sure about the rules on Mother in Laws. Then as now, can you fill her up, no problem sir, all done and just the bill to pay when you get back (the aircraft I mean not the M in L). Try that at many places elsewhere. No Sir, we cant fill her up without you standing there, watching us, H and S Gov.
I flew past a well known place many years ago with another forumite. Have you got PPR. No, well sod of. Can I call you for PPR, oh yes delighted, but call us on the land line. Can I call you on the mobile landline from the cockpit? Are you try to be clever? You couldnt make it up, and it wouldnt happen in the States I suspect, any more than you would be allowed to land somewhere on a fuel emergency, and then smugly told, we dont have any Avgas. Of course you should have checked, but in the States you wouldnt dream of checking anymore than driving into a petrol station and finding they could only sell you diesel and then only if you had cash or a Shell card. That analogy is common for airports in France.
Last one – and I even get caught. Well known small regional airport. Not worried about paying a bit more because after all it is a small regional airport. The bill is nearly £200 and should have asked. Services – there was a coffee machine, someone came out with a batten, but you walked to the “C”, and AT treated you with as much contempt as they possibly could, even though they had barely anything to do. Surprise, surprise the place is empty. They should have a sign up, GA not wanted here thank you.
Miami International – what approach would you like, Sir, oh dont worry we will slot you in between the BA and the AF1, would you like us to send the car to pick you up from the ramp, you want to pay to land and park, are you mad, oh no so sorry, just English, why dont you have some fuel and then it is free, there is some hot food in the cabinet over there and some beers, and cans, and sweets, please hlep yourself, is there anything we can do for you?
Bizarre – and the CIs are sort of part of the UK and we are sort of part of Europe. Work that out, and explain it to an American.
You do what???!!!
Silvaire wrote:
[The EU is] not the United States of Europe but yet in most of it (the Schengen Zone) you can travel freely on the ground without much in the way of national border issues. I fail to see why that doesn’t apply to light aircraft. It’s just dumb.
But it does! Except for Greece which is ignoring Schengen as far as air traffic goes.
If I want to fly from some minor airstrip in Sweden straight to some minor airstrip in Germany, I just do it. (Well, ok, I do have to file a flight plan and I know you have a thing about flight plans, but still…)
There is plenty more of this to be found with little effort from “proper” European pilots, and this is very much Schengen.
Airborne_Again wrote:
If I want to fly from some minor airstrip in Sweden straight to some minor airstrip in Germany, I just do it. (Well, ok, I do have to file a flight plan and I know you have a thing about flight plans, but still…)
Actually I have a “thing” about both mandatory flight plans for no good reason and mandatory ATC where it adds no value. I see little chance of Sweden invading Germany with fleets of MFI Juniors, Biafra style. Also mandatorily talking to some non-ATC person on the ground before you land.
Silvaire wrote:
Actually I have a “thing” about both mandatory flight plans for no good reason
AFAIK the US requires flight plans for international flights? Flight plans for international flights in Europe are required for the same reason.
If I want to fly from some minor airstrip in Sweden straight to some minor airstrip in Germany, I just do it.
OK, but lt me say again: this flying adventure was not done in Sweden. It was done (a) elsewhere and (b) across several countries. You cannot just fly airstrip-airstrip internationally in Europe – except between the very few countries which don’t require flight plans for VFR and then only in very limited circumstances (no CAS etc).
Europe is not a country. It is a bunch of countries which happen to share borders. Historically most of them didn’t like each other, and most continue to operate borders for national security reasons.
Like I said, someone ought to read that article and take it line by line.
Schengen is barely relevant to flight planning in Europe. It just takes out 1 or 2 planning steps. That link posted by Fuji is a mag (gosh it even has an article by me, back in the days before they demanded that anything I write for them I don’t put on my website, at which point I stopped) on a trip to Spain, and as we all know, that isn’t a simple exercise. We did one to Menorca in Sep 2017 and it took ages to “negotiate” the handling. It may as well have been in Africa and the Balkans are prob99 a lot simpler because GA flies down there all the time.
But anyway EuroGA has a very high SEO and a google on almost anything to do with flying in Europe brings up a EuroGA thread at the top hit, or near the top. This guy clearly didn’t do any research.
Peter wrote:
Europe is not a country. It is a bunch of countries which happen to share borders. Historically most of them didn’t like each other, and most continue to operate borders for national security reasons
It is today a conglomeration of countries between which most residents can travel, by most means of travel, without any official awareness. Light aircraft should be included.
A reasonable American analogy for traveling without any official awareness is traveling between US states, and light aircraft are included as they should be in Europe. Traveling to Mexico by any means of travel requires official awareness. That is analogous to leaving political Europe and traveling to Turkey or the Ukraine. I am not proposing that light aircraft should be able to travel to and from political Europe to the Ukraine without any official awareness.
Silvaire wrote:
A reasonable American analogy for traveling without any official awareness is traveling between US states, and light aircraft are included as they should be in Europe. Traveling to Mexico by any means of travel requires official awareness. That is analogous to leaving political Europe and traveling to Turkey or the Ukraine.
Completely disagree. First you have to define “Europe”. Russia is a part of Europe for instance. EU is not “Europe”. EU is just a fragile union of commerce. EASA is not Europe. Schengen is not Europe. Europe is a complex place. How many languages do we have for instance? It is not even remotely comparable to the US in the ways you (and the dude flying) is trying to do.
OK, it would be much easier to fly around IF it where like the US. I think everybody agree on that. But it isn’t, and there is no use pretending. There are multitudes of reason for that, and none of them has anything to do with aviation.
I’m aware that Europe extends beyond the EU which is why I described it for the purposes of this discussion as “a conglomeration of countries between which most residents can travel, by most means of travel, without any official awareness” And as I mentioned, I think in those areas where that description applies, light aircraft should be included. What would be a valid reason why light aircraft below some defined limits (of e.g. size or weight) should not be included?
