Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

PA46 Malibu N264DB missing in the English Channel

Peter wrote:

If the flight plan gives his name, and if (as reported) he has not been anywhere near the departure location for a year, why would his name appear on the flight plan?

My happen in group/share aircraft fly-outs where A tell B to fill his FPL or uses his SD tablet, if one is cautious enough you would check fields before hitting the send and check email confirmations, have seen this before

But hard to believe the PIC name on the FPL was a typo, the other pilot would have made it clear, he was not at Nantes !

Last Edited by Ibra at 25 Jan 18:56
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Yes, FR24 does use Mode-S to identify.
Also, it shows aircraft triangulated on Mode C/A as generic symbols, if no identification could be established.
Here one of countless random examples:

And No, that is by no means illegal. You are still allowed to fly Mode C/A, but under EASA it will count for No-XPDR. You can still fly within airspace not demanding a transponder and for any transponder-mandatory airspace you are to get a permit to enter as if you had none. Yes, without Mode-S you may be denied access to airspace with transponder requirement, but it not often happens in reality.

Last Edited by at 25 Jan 19:44

dejwu wrote:

I bet at this time of the year and under this weather conditions there were none leisure ship in the area ;-). I guess you are quite wrong with the usage of DSC in leisure ships. Since a long time only DSC radios can be officially registered in leisure ship, so there is almost none left without it now.

Yes, both fair points. I agree that any recently purchased VHF will have DSC by default. I also agree that with respect to this specific incident I doubt there were many / any leisure craft nearby but probably plenty of trawlers in that area and of course commercial vessels. The point was intended to be a more general observation that there are often more vessels of all types around in the channel, and in the warm months plenty of yachts and other on transit often in challenging conditions.

dejwu wrote:

Also, it shows aircraft triangulated on Mode C/A as generic symbols, if no identification could be established.
Here one of countless random examples:

In your example, how does FR 24 know it’s aircraft type, if it’s a Mode C report only? The only thing it gets back is a squawk and altitude….no identifying info.

Up to last year our aircraft only had a mode C, and never….not once….appeared on FR24.

We added Mode S + ADS-B last year. After adding it, it appeared on FR24, but only while in the air. Shortly after landing the flight was removed, and was not available under any history (you couldn’t find the reg if you searched for it).

I had to give the details to FR24, and wait a few weeks before the aircraft became searchable, and the history could be found. Even then, the history was only from the date they added their details into the database.

Also, I think FR24 and others will not record your data if you contact them and tell them you want to opt out of your data being publically available. Quite possibly the owner did that years ago for privacy reasons.

EIWT Weston, Ireland

I said earlier I would do this in the right SEP if I had to and largely agree with Peter.

However, in the event of an engine failure in a Cirrus you have a fair chance whatever the sea state. I do wonder your chances with a “normal” forced landing at night in anything much of a sea state.

I have a family. For this reason, as long as I can afford it, I will continue to fly them in a twin, because of the sort of flying we do, involving sea, terrain, IMC. At the moment we are on holiday in France. We flew commercially (a rarity for us) because the weather at the beginning of the week suggested a real risk of icing and no obvious “outs” on our chosen route. The decision to go commercially was relatively last minute, having reviewed the weather every few hours for several days. This is a journey we have made before, at this time of year, but always in conjunction with careful planning. On one occasion we abandoned an aeroplane in Lyon and returned by Eurostar.

One of the greatest safety features available to modern GA is access to good weather data on the web. Resources such as Gramets are invaluable. I wonder how much the pilot of the ill-fated PA46 availed himself of the available resources, and whether they reassured/deterred him?

Last Edited by Mark_B at 25 Jan 22:39
EGCJ, United Kingdom

I understand it is interesting to discuss all known details of the accident flight itself.

However equally interesting is to know how the aircraft was operated and used in the last three years under the ownership of [name removed – see earlier note], who were the pilots and who were the passengers on these flights. May be it is possible to discover some systemic root causes that led to this accident.

I can imagine that the deceased soccer player did not make the arrangements himself and certainely was not too enthusiastic to fly in a winter night in an old single engine aeroplane with a questionable pilot.

cessnatraveller wrote:

I can imagine that the deceased soccer player

While it seems likely that is the case, there is no evidence yet that this is fact.
LKTB->EGBJ, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

heavy ice, say 3cm, would take about 30 mins to completely melt, at say 1000ft

Well, not that it would have been my choice,but if you are not climbing, then descending to +2C VMC and waiting 30 mins to shed ice seems a better bet than staying IMC at -5C at 5000ft and continuing to accrete ice.

Last Edited by Antonio at 25 Jan 23:40
Antonio
LESB, Spain

Noe wrote:

On thing I find surprising is that I never heard on emergencies that involve forced landing / ditching to turn the ELT on BEFORE reaching the ground.

On the two aircraft I have flown the most, this action renders the com radios on the aircraft useless and ensures you get a continuous whoop whoop in your headsets on most com frequencies you could tune into. This does not help very much with proper thinking and concentration at a time you may need it most.

For me, something to be done only once you are ready to give up your com radio.

Antonio
LESB, Spain
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top