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Renting out and learning in an N reg aircraft in the UK

@jdaisey

The meaning of the term varies between treaties and regulations. In the present context an opinion should be sought from the Office of the Chief Counsel for FAA. It has previously interpreted the requirement at 14 CFR 61.3(a)(1)(vii)—permitting a US-registered aircraft to be flown in a foreign state using a pilot licence issued there—as including licences other than those conforming to ICAO Annex 1. See final few paras in post 52 in the thread FCC radio telephone operators permit / radio station license. Solo flying training may be done with a US-registered aircraft in Canada under the provisions of NAFTA, under the direction and supervision of the holder of a Canadian instructor rating, so there is clearly a precedent although student pilot permits are issued there. See second para in post 9 in the thread N-reg in DTO? See also last para post 7 same thread.

Under your proposed interpretation of international flight much of the Chicago Convention is likely not to apply. I haven’t checked. Either way, the right of non-scheduled flight in a US-registered aircraft wholly within UK airspace is one established tacitly by custom as article 5 of the Chicago Convention does not apply. If the articles on pilot licences are not applicable then states would be under no obligation to recognise licences or certificates issued by the state of registry. The right to refuse to recognise pilot licences would not be limited to nationals of the state where the flight occurs.

The UK ANO does not offer an exception from the requirement for an appropriate licence to fly a non-EASA aircraft registered elsewhere than in UK to persons undergoing solo flying training. That is, the exception in article 140 applies to article 137 which covers UK-registered non-EASA aircraft. Article 148, lacking a similar exception, requires the person to hold an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under the law of the state of registry or under the ANO. From exit day a UK resident will be required to hold an appropriate licence granted converted or rendered valid under the [UK] Aircrew Regulation. See licence maps in post 204 of the thread Brexit and general aviation, UK leaving EASA, etc (merged).

London, United Kingdom

I think that CFR just just means that an “FAA student/solo certificates are not ICAO compliant”
Sensible answer is NO, but try your luck you get a surprising answers from NAAs if you push your case

Like saying can I fly solo in UK airspace with French Instructor Authorisation or DGAC issued Brevet De Base?
Or can I drive in France on a UK provisional licence and a 3 years friend sitting in the LHS?/RHS?
Can I fly PtF in France with UK NPPL? Can I fly German gliders in Morocco with UK BGA papers?

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Qalupalik wrote:

A US student pilot certificate is ordinarily not valid for exercising pilot-in-command privileges in international flight. 14 CFR 61.89(a)(5) refers.

I thought about this some more and spoke to an intructor. I also read the above regulation. It seems to me (and the instructor) that ‘international flight’ applies to crossing international borders, rather than a flight done within a country. i.e. if the solo is done on an N reg in the UK (without crossing into France/etc), then it would not be deemed an international flight?

United Kingdom

Thanks! Looks like I may have been inadvertently misinformed

United Kingdom

A US student pilot certificate is ordinarily not valid for exercising pilot-in-command privileges in international flight. 14 CFR 61.89(a)(5) refers.

London, United Kingdom

Looks like you can get an FAA Student Pilot Certificate issued in the UK! Found an FAA instructor who does it so one can fly solo on Ab-initio EASA PPL on N reg. Thought it may be interesting for others to know

United Kingdom

Leaern how to lean bellow 2500ft that is a luxury skill

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

It was either that, or it had an upgraded engine to cruise at 135kt… which was the fun bit. No point babying the student (or the engine), we cruised at 75%, and I had to rework all the nav routes because the ones we used in the school were designed for 80-100kt cruise and too short to be meaningful exercises. He – gasp – even had to learn how to lean!

Biggin Hill

Hmmm, Cobalt, I need to be sure this game is fairly played. Are you 100% certain that Arrow was genuinely retractable ?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Doing an ab initio PPL in your own G-reg won’t be a lot easier – it depends on finding a school willing to play ball. You should be able to find one, somewhere.

But not in a retractable etc. It is possible legally but if you can find one to take this on I will eat my oil filter

I’d love to see that, Peter

When I was instructing, a student bought a PA28RT-201 Arrow IV [probably the worst handling of the arrows, BTW] just after first solo. We got his aircraft on the schools books and he finished his PPL including the skills test in the aircraft.

@jdaisey; I no longer instruct, but if you are interested in seeing Peter eat that filter, I can let you know the school – send me a PM. Not sure they would have done it on an N-reg.

Biggin Hill
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