Any way to fly a TB20 EGKA-EGHE with a real ATC clearance for the whole route?

I can also echo Buckerfan’s experience – when I flew similar routes (Perranporth / St. Mawgan) I was able to negotiate the airway crossing; but it took some effort; in one instance I asked to remain on frequency for later re-join and I was handed over to the down-route controller; in another instance, it involved some faff to figure out the right frequency and ask for transit from a surprised controller; same as happened to @Buckerfan. But in both instances transit was granted; the main issue remains that without assurance of clearance, a plan B needs to be available, which in VMC is easy, but in IMC with icing mat be tricky.

That is precisely what I was getting at. I have tried that airway crossing in the past; sometimes got it, sometimes not, sometimes the reply took so long (say, past 20 mins) that I had to duck under it anyway.

It’s a really crappy system, caused by some sort of ATC turf war because there is very little traffic in there.

Then you get trouble coming back, west to east, with Solent refusing a crossing, but at FL100 it should work because you will be in Bournemouth’s CAS (by 500ft) and then a handover “should” happen; discussed before here.

Doing a route EGHE-EGKA I get more of the same.

This one would get me busted by the CAA “team” over D012

but hey this one looks better (still infringing D012 but only just) EGHE N0152F100 LND DCT DAWLY DCT ABKIM L620 SAM Y8 GWC EGKA

and as before the original route validates N0152F100 LND DCT TINAN DCT SAM Y8 GWC

and again it fails to validate at FL110 but, as before, due to DCTs being too long. That’s OK; one can file for FL100 and go up as necessary, once “in the system”.

Yes, of course, as in here to beat the French MAXDCT=10nm limit, but in this case it is not necessary.

I made some phone calls to ATC units to check out the feasibility.

Exeter (01392 354916) told me the most interesting thing: south of them, the Class A is owned by London Control (which IME often refuse a transit when Exeter ATC calls them, or just cannot be contacted) but to the north it is owned by Cardiff which is a lot easier. Further phone calls established that Cardiff own it up to FL165. So routing via TIVER is better than routing via TINAN.

But then you bust D011 if active. Some of it has a top of FL100… sometimes

I then called London Control and after a bit got passed to a flight planning department (01489 612423) who looked at the route, said it validates (which I knew – see above) but were not able to give any assurance of a transit anywhere. They said I will drop off after Solent into Class G (yeah, for sure). No possibility of retaining the IFR clearance. I asked what happens with a bizjet, which can hardly be left hacking around VFR at 4000ft etc… They said I might get a CAS join at GWC but it is not assured and I might get handed to Solent instead (which would bugger me because they will push me down to 4000-5000ft). London suggested I file for as high as possible.

Solent (023 8062 7214/5) are not answering the phone.

The route validates: N0152F100 GWC DCT SAM DCT TIVER DCT LND DCT and it does so in both directions, at/below FL100. Above FL100 you hit the MAXDCT issue.

Well, I flew this, EGKA-EGHE yesterday and back today.

The departure clearance at EGKA was not to London Control but to Farnborough 134.355. That’s a new one! They cleared me to CAS FL080. Then they gave me London Control 134.125 who gave me FL090 to SAM (I changed cruise from FL100 to FL090). Then I got LC 129.430. It became apparent that they did not have my flight plan, so LTCC must have binned it by then, if not right away.

I got across Solent (who as previously noted own the air only up to FL070 – this is a key piece of inside knowledge) and then handed to Bournemouth 119.47. When I left their CAS, I called them up just to check whether I still had a clearance for any CAS; the reply was No. This would obviously have f*****d any foreign pilot who would simply expect to be able to fly on… but regulars know this i.e. your IFR clearance is binned in Class G and you don’t get it back unless a new one is “negotiated” freshly.

Then I worked on the Exeter CAS. Exeter did not have any FP for me; obviously I expected that by now. I went via TIVER not TINAN as per previous advice (another key piece of inside knowledge) and got it, with just a few mins before the boundary and with me watching the GPS intensely.

Then it was fine, Class G all the way to EGHE. Flew the NDB 27 IAP to runway 27.

This morning, quite a bit of “fun”.

Firstly the airport lives up fully to the “island mentality”. I mean they have a 747 landing every 3 mins, so safety is a priority. I was already soaked (no taxis and heavy rain), the inside of the plane was largely soaked too (the rain and 20kt+ wind). Engine start (I asked so I could get some condensation out, and warm up the engine for the expected ~100% power needed to get out of the soaked grass) not allowed until “controller is ready”.

ATC did have the FP (I asked to check). The DC was LND F100 1750 Newquay 133.405. So far great. Solid IMC immediately and loads of up/downdraughts. I got a “flight plan suspended” AR message (a phone call to EGHE just now assures me they did send off a DEP message) which remains a mystery.

Newquay reinstated the FP (I asked them if they had it). I don’t know what happened to it. I asked them about the Exeter transit and told them N of Exeter (TIVER) is easier because Cardiff has that up to FL165) whereas S of Exeter (TINAN) is London Control. They did not know this.

I initially climbed FL100 but the temp was 0C and with really heavy rain I didn’t want to explore any higher I had the TKS going on max (the only setting worth using IME) and with an hour of this wx expected I didn’t want to waste £100+ of fluid. So I went back down to FL080 / +3C. Traffic service with Newquay.

The Exeter transit went fine, in good time, but I had to ask. A foreign pilot would have been f*****d because nobody in the system was watching out for the obvious CAS crossing requirement down route.

Then I asked Exeter to call up Solent for the SAM CAS crossing. They said they will ask.

As expected I got a handover the Bournemouth 119.47. Like the earlier units, they are nice. I repeated the SAM transit request. Solent – after a bloody long while – refused a transit above 5000ft. Well, that’s because they own the air only to FL070 and saying “we don’t own the air at FL080; for that you need London Control” would be being helpful which is not in their job spec. They just say NO and leave you hanging there, doing 170kt (nice tailwind today). The wx at 5000ft would have been really sh1tty (buildups); I was on my own but a passenger would be pretty scared. I told Bournemouth about the Solent / FL070 bit (they didn’t know this) and I asked them to call London Control instead, which they did and – whoppeee – I got a transit via SAM at FL080 with LC on 134.125, all the way to about 30nm to EGKA.

To summarise: the UK system is totally broken, smashed, useless, non functional, unless

• the whole flight is in CAS and
• LTCC has not binned the FP (because it doesn’t look “serious enough”; the criteria have never been published and are prob90 in MATS Pt 2 which is confidential)

On your first bit of Class G, your clearance is gone, and gone for ever. You are now really just a “VFR bimbler” and have to negotiate everything down route.

The above is no news to anybody in the UK with an IR who actually goes anywhere, of course, but some still argue that it somehow works / your clearance is not lost / your flight does not become “de facto VFR” etc.

If one filed for FL250 then it would be continuous CAS (Class C).

Your Eurocontrol flight plan is also lost upon the first bit of Class G. This is EGKA-EGHE

and you can see the FP was binned even before SAM

On the way back, a similar thing, with Eurocontrol tracking showing only after the LTCC handover

That loop N of EGKA is me flying the RNAV 20 IAP but I was still descending to the 2200ft platform, which lies under the 2500ft LTMA, and wasn’t taking chances on the CAA not busting me for clipping the edge of CAS in the descent while cleared by LC to “leave CAS by descent” (the MOR listings show somebody – scandalously – having got “done” for this recently) so I did an orbit inside the 4500ft LTMA.

To summarise: all was as I expected, and nothing has improved in recent years.

This is the AR message about the suspended FP:

Aircraft ID: N113AC
Departure aerodrome: EGHE
Destination aerodrome: EGKA
Estimated off block time (EOBT): 2020-08-27 07:00Z
The following comments were given:
- NOT REPORTED AS AIRBORNE

There’s a question!

Does the ICAO Lost Comms Procedure say it cannot be used in Class G-F?

If you did that, on this flight, I reckon you would have your license removed immediately and then you would get prosecuted. It would be a great assignment for a good lawyer – but only one who knows what a plane looks like – because the CAA would lose.