Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Germany VFR at FL100+

I would like to try out flying VFR in Germany at FL100+ (Airspace Charlie).

  • what’s the easiest way to “join”? Via Info or via Radar? How would I find the right radar frequency?
  • once above FL100, would I still be responsible for airspace deconfliction? My maps don’t even show anything other than one big slab of airspace Charlie…

And do I need a VFR flight plan for this?

Switzerland

Just ask Information for higher. You get given the Radar frequency to call. It’s really easy and normal flight plan rules apply.

EDHS, Germany

Either ways to join will work, if situation permits such.

  • call FIS in the air and request their coordination with current traffic situation – they will hand over to the active sector frequency if accepted, or request being called on the ground by phone when VFR FPL is filed and announce prior to take off, there is a checkbox for it in SECAIS filing form. Do not forget to fill in ‘/RMK VFR flight request above FL100’, so whoever gets the flight plan for processing gets a chance to give notice to ATC system in advance.
  • call RADAR in advance by phone and talk to them before take-off what, how and when they are able to let you up there (highly advised if travelling larger distances, it really helps not to stand on the doorstep with no advance notice). The RADAR frequencies for VFR2IFR are best found in AIP on map MIL AIP ENR 6-13 and btw, it does not hurt to read and understand MIL AIP ENR 6 anyways.
  • Entering FL100+ you need a FPL and I strongly advise to file a regular flight plan SECIAS portal and not insist on AFIL, as you are disturbing a not so well oiled system …
  • Be current and actual in use of proper aviation english and real firm on regulations plus how to fly in controlled airspace Charlie!
Last Edited by MichaLSA at 21 Aug 06:40
Germany

Both are possible, either request via FIS or directly from Radar (frequencies are in GEN 3-10).
Once you are a controlled flight, there is no „other“ airspace for you for worry about. But: it still makes sense to be aware of which military airspaces (ED-Rs and TRAs) there are up there and whether they are active, to avoid requesting routing that can‘t be approved anyway. Use Skydemon for that.

No prefiled flightplan is required for airspace C in Germany (of course, your request will factually „create“ one on the spot). Some people have speculated that having prefiled a flightplan makes things more likely to happen, but that is just speculation. Nowadays, the German FIS has access to all VFR flightplans.

Your chances are normally good, unless you request a route whixh is ovbviously problematic. Recently however, with the enornous staff shortages everywhere, a lot of airspace C clearsnce requests have been flat out denied by ATC, so never fully rely on receiving such clearance.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

MichaLSA wrote:

Do not forget to fill in ‘/RMK VFR flight request above FL100’,

Is it not enough to file a flight level above FL100? That would show your intentions just as well and uses only standard fields of the flight plan.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 21 Aug 06:56
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

Is it not enough to file a flight level above FL100? That would show your intentions just as well and uses only standard fields of the flight plan.

From my experience, No, if shit hits fan, it is not sufficient to just file above FL100. Using /RMK documents your awareness of the clearance needed to go above FL100. I sometimes even add the planned timestamp for entering as well. Unfortunately, we do not have the necessary positive or non punishing error culture in all of Europe, in case if. Specific: risk is not zero a pilot mistakenly takes such an accepted FPL as clearance to enter the FL >100.

Last Edited by MichaLSA at 21 Aug 07:24
Germany

OK, so what I will try to do is:

Start without fpl, check in on Info, request climb FL105, be flexible on routing. If it doesn’t work then no big deal, I can do the flight in airspace E. Maybe not the highest likelihood of being successful but if I understand correctly should be possible in principle, ATC workload permitting.

I’m IFR certified and proficient, so phraseology shouldn’t be a problem.

Will report back how it went.

Switzerland

HBadger wrote:

I’m IFR certified and proficient, so phraseology shouldn’t be a problem.

Small hint, when you request climb FL >100, proactively tell you are IFR rated – increases probability to be accepted in tighter situations.

Germany

Good hint, thanks.

Switzerland

request climb FL105

ATC hate that in Charlie as they separate VFR/IFR: they lose two levels for IFR with only FL130 & FL90 being available for 1000ft separation, if you request FL110 they can put IFR at FL100 & FL120

Last Edited by Ibra at 21 Aug 08:27
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
24 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top